Stereo Tool

Ahh.. i am very sleepy now .. but i can't resist to try 5minute..

I did a (very quick) comparison against version 4.22, and - at least in the track that I compared - 4.22 has less distortion then 5.00. Also 4.22 seemed to sound slightly warmer. (*)

This might have something to do with clean/punch (which behaves differently in version 5.00 than in 4.22; it must be set lower to get the same sound).

Also, I realized later that I hadn't turned off phase rotation in version 5.00.

AGC / Pre Limiter was turned off in the comparison, because that has a big impact on the sound.


I'll continue this comparison later.


What I did notice though is that Bass Boost adds more distortion in this case (in previous tracks that I compared it didn't). So I think I'm at least going to have to re-tweak some of the presets.


(*) Compared with FM Loud Europe preset, Loudness set to 4.00, and AGC turned OFF!

Hello Hans, Yes, but that can be solved? Like that band is working by "peek" not by RMS.
Actually if it's at 0.20 there is big difference.. unless because of "loud S" effect, this difference should be less.
I found 0.40 as normal, where freq.response is Flat, and still on some tracks 3rd band knows to go under second.
2nd band i locked to not going under 1st and 3rd band is locked to not go more then 2nd - which i found good.

5000-13000 (sliding scale) Hz. -
This is good, but is 5000 little high. especially if it's sliding scale?

now, i played diferently.
i leave only 3-band AGC to work ..put some faster up/down speeds. Now i get 3-band multiband process wich sounds very nice btw
This now gives mi idea than now comes logical to have up/down speed for all 3 bands. (ofcourse not that fast for complete processing)
As i said that i found default setting for 3rd band is 0.40, and even there knows to lower highs, with separate up/down speeds this can be lowered more if needed, but keeping threshold.

I played a lot today with this, and one conclusion came up is, how AGC/prelimiter can make a lot difference to overall sound, This is very important part of processing.

Here is default settings with flat responce on AGC's output.


This setting for 3rd band is 0.40 not 0.39.. This sometimes get me nervous.. like Highpass filter can never be seted at 30Hz. (29.989985958484844848787124484343434)

Ok, I think I did this check too fast. I've just checked it again, but I've turned off all the filters that are different between v4.22 and v5.00 (Bass Boost, Phase Rotation) and now I don't hear any extra distortion anymore in v5.00. I also hardly notice the 'lack of warmth' anymore, and I think the extra warmth in version 4.22 may be caused by pre-ringing artifacts (!) which are now filtered out.

Further analysis shows:
- In THIS particular track, the distortion is increased by the phase rotation! It actually sounds better if I turn it off. This is probably (based on what I heard earlier) very rare. The effect is not very big though.
- The 'lack of warmth': The AGC output level ('soft limit') is too low. This causes the multiband compressor to be far less active than in version 4.22, which in turn makes the sound less full/warm. So: The preset needs to be adjusted. On top of that: More multiband compression means that the frequency content is spread out more evenly, which makes the job for Loudness easier (hence reduces (!!!) distortion).

I did notice one thing: "S" sounds in version 5.00 are _slightly_ louder than in version 4.22, with the same filters used. So I probably do indeed need to decrease the 'allow louder highs' thing a bit. (Might also be caused by the fact that the trumpet filter in version 4.22 was acting up sometimes for non-trumpet sounds).

Hi Hans..
Question: Is it good/possible, when loading presets from 'preset menu' to not change 'Soundcard settings' ? (standalone)

Bojcha, I've made the change you requested - I've added 2 sliders to control up/down speed for the high frequency band. Uploaded as BETA, so please use the same links as before. VST versions are not yet available, and the settings are not saved to disk!

With 2 bands, the output (and performance!) is now exactly identical to that of version 5.00. With the 3rd band enabled (even at 100%) it's a bit different, apparently the locking of bands against each other isn't perfect (although that's not necessarily bad).

Well. this should solve problem with more highs. Maybe Just more optimized bands ..

I have not had problems with highs, maybe just last 3 band in multiband with bit faster down speed.
If 3rd band gets final i'll use it just slightly. 3rd - 35-40%

Hans, something that I don't understand the highs that you complain about they are very short and quick peaks.
An AGC should have the purpose of leveling and not to interact quickly.
Isn't it possible to integrate a de-esser which would actually solve the issue?

Also maybe put a output slider after the AGC so you can set the volume that is going on the multiband.

De-esser: Hard Limit already do that.
Is't that done by first slider in AGC ?

Hans, mm sorry but I must say this .. but there are a couple of things that are not very clear about the layout and function.

The input and AGC are very confusing, and to me wrong.
The pre-amp on the main window should only work to a virtual 0dB.
The AGC should be able to work as a slow leveler. If you open the AGC window on the left the amount you want to it to make up. The treshold level and then the times of attack and release which should be alot slower then the multiband. After that on the right the volume you want to insert in the mutiband. You could even do that last one in the multiband window.