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Stereo Tool and Windows 10; surprise limiter?
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Author:  kevinb [ Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Stereo Tool and Windows 10; surprise limiter?
Hi Guys,


So yesterday I updated to Windows 10, and today when I fired up Stereo Tool I couldn't help but notice that my processing suddenly sounds terrible. After some research I noticed that the bad sound was caused by some (very bad) limiter which is somehow active on the output of Stereo Tool.
I don't know if this is caused by something within Stereo Tool or Windows 10, but if I either lower ST's normal output or the post amplifier volume to -6 dB (basically do anything to limit the sound emitted from ST to -6 dB) everything sounds normal again. Lowering any of the output levels within Windows has no effect on the limiter.

Anyone else already tried running Stereo Tool under Windows 10? What are your experiences? I'm trying to figure out what part of my setup is screwing around with the sound. It could be Windows, my sound driver, Stereo Tool, perhaps VAC?, I just don't know right now.


Cheers,

Kevin.
Author:  Bojcha [ Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool and Windows 10; surprise limiter?
Check soundcard settings. Disable all effects. Also check, Windows Control Panel > Sound.
Author:  hvz [ Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool and Windows 10; surprise limiter?
If reducing the Normal Output level or Post Amp in Stereo Tool fixes it, then it happens after Stereo Tool, so what Bojcha said.
Author:  kevinb [ Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Windows 10; surprise limiter?
Investigated a little further. It definitely happens outside of Stereo Tool (and VAC) as it also seems to affect unprocessed sound coming straight out of my music player. All "enhancements" within Windows are disabled (immediate mode), however this could be ignored by my sound card driver because of some kind of incompatibility with Win 10 (though it doesn't sound like any of the enhancements my sound card provides, even the built-in loudness equalization sounds better than this). I'll see if the manufatcurer or Microsoft will release a fix for this and for now I'll just continue on -6 dB.

I do notice aswell that I posted this in the wrong section, since my problem has nothing to do with a bug in Stereo Tool. My apologies. Thanks for your help!
Author:  timmywa [ Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool and Windows 10; surprise limiter?
I've played with StereoTool in Win10 Pro. I never experienced any differences in behavior or sound. Whether pushing audio through VAC or my old Soundblaster Audigy 2zs, it's been fine.
Author:  Bojcha [ Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Windows 10; surprise limiter?
Quote:
Investigated a little further. It definitely happens outside of Stereo Tool (and VAC) as it also seems to affect unprocessed sound coming straight out of my music player. All "enhancements" within Windows are disabled (immediate mode), however this could be ignored by my sound card driver because of some kind of incompatibility with Win 10 (though it doesn't sound like any of the enhancements my sound card provides, even the built-in loudness equalization sounds better than this). I'll see if the manufatcurer or Microsoft will release a fix for this and for now I'll just continue on -6 dB.

I do notice aswell that I posted this in the wrong section, since my problem has nothing to do with a bug in Stereo Tool. My apologies. Thanks for your help!
What Player?
Recently i saw someone uses Aimp player and by default it uses some crap limiter.
Author:  makrisj [ Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool and Windows 10; surprise limiter?
So far working with windows 10 has only to demostrate a crappy XONAR DX ASIO implemetation bubbling all the time. Switched to embedded HD audio Realtek codec output for my tests, works like a charm.
Author:  kevinb [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Windows 10; surprise limiter?
Quote:
What Player?
Recently i saw someone uses Aimp player and by default it uses some crap limiter.
I simply use Spotify for my tests. However it doesn't matter which application outputs the sound, as soon as stuff gets above -6dB a limiter kicks in, so it definitely has to be caused by my audio driver.

Just found out that ASIO mercilessly bypasses the limiter (yay). This leaves me to conclude that the culprit must be a slightly confused Realtek HD audio driver. If that's the case, Makrisj, our experiences would completely counteract one another. What do you guys think?
Author:  makrisj [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool and Windows 10; surprise limiter?
No, that's different. My sound card's (XONAR DX) ASIO implementation is losing sync even when buffer settings are huge, sampling scope is at 4096 samples and I use same ASIO sound card for input and output. How can this be? I don't know but I am frustrated enough not to deal any more with that ASIO driver. Maybe I'll try ASIO4ALL for a session, but since the hardware remains the same I don't expect much. I need a proper sound card, I guess.

Till then, Realtek implementation on a GIGABYTE motherboard shows some weird preemphasis on an oscilloscope - signals above 20 KHZ climb up almost linearly to a 4 dB increase at 57 KHz. (MUX output mode). Should cause artifacts even in normal stereo listening up to 20 KHz when 192Ksps are selected, but I have no time to explore it. It is probably the analog part and the oscilloscope I am using is going up to 20 MHZ linearly so probably the card and not the OScope is at fault.
Since the response is non-linear (nealy flat up to 20 khz and then climbing up) I had to use calibration.

But since I output at really low levels (-10dB digital) I cannot say for sure whether there is a compressor-clipper active as I am below mentioned threshold.
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