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Bass AGC - final limiter v/s loudness
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Author:  DJC [ Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Bass AGC - final limiter v/s loudness
Hi everyone,

Anny clue as to why default values of bass AGC differ so much from those of "normal" AGC? I'm having trouble in finding which is the target or scope of this filter, but I think it may be very useful. Did a search and there is virtually no discussion about it.

Another thing: If I don't need a loud output (just listening to music in my PC and streaming to my Iphone), am I better off only with final limiter, or with loudness at 1,05? I don't hear much differencie, so I appeal to the experts.

Thanks,

Daniel
Author:  hvz [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bass AGC - final limiter v/s loudness
Hi DJC,

The bass AGC is intended to reduce the amount of bass going into the clipper, if you don't need loud output you probably shouldn't use it. The values are different because the purpose is very different (protecting the clipper vs. getting a constant level)...

Loudness sounds better (has more protection mechanisms) than Final Limiter, but it uses a lot more CPU power. So that one is up to you - if there's not much clipping going on there's not much difference between the two; the difference gets bigger if you're aiming for a louder output. Basically Final Limiter can handle short spikes, Loudness can handle continuous overshoots as well.
Author:  DJC [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bass AGC - final limiter v/s loudness
Much clearer, thanks. Only doubt from what you said is if bass AGC comes before or after multiband (since it is intended to reduce bass going into the clipper, which I understand is loudness, which in turn comes after multiband).

One more thing: afer multiband you have single band compressor / limiter; then final limiter; then loudness and finally hard limit. Most presets use all of them, but I'm under the impression that I read somewhere that limiter after limiter and so on is not so good, so -again needless of a loud sound-, to preserve dynamics and punch, is it the optimum to use only one of them, say final limiter?
Author:  hvz [ Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bass AGC - final limiter v/s loudness
The bass AGC is directly after the normal AGC, so before Multiband. In fact it also protects against Multiband artifacts!

About clipper after clipper: If you enable both Final Limiter and Loudness, Final Limiter is automatically bypassed (but the volume slider of it still works). I would normally not use the singleband compressor/limiter unless you want to create a specific effect like pumping.
Author:  DJC [ Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bass AGC - final limiter v/s loudness
Very enlighting info. As someone said, documentation is a must somewhere on the road (but I can only imagine the load of work that that may take). Keep up this extraordinary work!
Author:  michi95 [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bass AGC - final limiter v/s loudness
Quote:
I would normally not use the singleband compressor/limiter unless you want to create a specific effect like pumping.
For traditional presets this is true.
But if you use very exotic (extreme !) settings in Multiband like my BASE RMS 7 preset then the SC/L is needed to reduce the signal (this preset uses x 0.45 !).
It would not be a good idea to turn it off.

Try this (with my BASE RMS 7 preset):
1. Disable Loudness
2. Enable Final Limiter
3. Disable SC/L
:arrow: arrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Though if you do this (please Hans you too):
1. Keep Loudness enabled (and FL off !)
2. Disable Hard Limit
3. Disable SC/L

Then you have almost the same loudness as the Web Radio Loud preset (but still something I would call virtual dynamics based on my Noise Gate settings).
And this happens with Loudness x 1.01 !

Compare this modification of BASE RMS 7 with the Web Radio Loud preset.
IMO it (my) is cleaner.
Play especially tracks like "Alien Ant Farm - Smooth Criminal", "Kelly Osbourne - Papa Don't Preach", "Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Murder On The Dancefloor", "Gorillaz - Clint Eastwood" and similiar music ! or old titles like "Frank & Nancy Sinatra - Something Stupid" !!!

The Multiband is much better than most people (here in this forum) think.
Hans should rename it to "Dynamic EQ" and keep it when he will add a more conventional Multiband processing module in the future.
Author:  hvz [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Bass AGC - final limiter v/s loudness
Quote:
The Multiband is much better than most people (here in this forum) think.
Hans should rename it to "Dynamic EQ" and keep it when he will add a more conventional Multiband processing module in the future.
I definitely will, the thing is capable of creating a specific 'full' and warm sound that multiband compressors with (much) less bands would never be capable off. The thing is just not very well suited to create a constant output signal without spikes. And it has some other important drawbacks (for example that it doesn't respond differently to compressed and dynamic content).
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