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Rate this preset for FM
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=34619		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  hantatar [ Tue Nov 05, 2024 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Rate this preset for FM
I have managed to make a preset from scratch. For the last few days I spent my time observing the built in ST presets and realized that none fit my needs, so I decided to make my own.

For me it sounds okay, but I got to the point where I don't know where to make improvements. I am not saying it sounds bad, I got it to sound very similar to a radio station in my area. The sound of this preset is pretty dense (I'm probably not using this term correctly ~ I'm not a professional) and loud.

So it's up to you to rate it. (I do accept hate) Modifications are welcome.


I plan using this for FM and I am waiting for and appreciate every feedback and opinion.

Attachments:
File comment: It exceeds the 256 K limit so I put it in a ZIP archive
propiu modificat.zip [129.12 KiB]
Downloaded 394 times
Author:  Dale.Sharp [ Mon Nov 11, 2024 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
Hello hantatar,

A few thoughts.. keep in mind processing settings are very opinionable
1) its squashed but doesn't fill the spectrum
2) its fatiguing to listening to
3) the highs are not consistent
4) too much stereo enhancement... think of this as anchovies on a pizza.. a little is good.. too much is bad and remember this will aggravate multipath


My advice is.. dont try to copy the competition
you can stand out on the dial by not being "IN YOUR FACE"
find the balance between wall of sound and natural

Hope this helps :)
Author:  seanhargrave [ Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
Gave it a try. Hate to be harsh or critical, but at least on my setup it sounds like a tape being chewed up. Extremely rapid wow and flutter. I solved it by significantly decreasing the Levels > Density settings for MB2 and increasing the attack/release times for both MB1 and MB2, as well as disabling Single Band.

Some rules of thumb I follow when designing presets to get smoother signal tracking:
- I read somewhere that Multiband 2 is hard-coded to be analog mode only. Why? I have no idea it just is. But it explains why it reacts more harshly than MB1 placed in digital mode. I use it for a light amount of post-leveling and limiting.
- Attack times on MB1 (digital) should be minimum 1ms, release should be minimum 20ms.
- Attack times on MB2 should be minimum 10ms, release should be minimum 75ms.
- Never limit more than 10dB.
- Only use Azimuth, Stereo Boost and ACR Stereo. The other options sound like a low bit-rate MP3 file.
- Don't phase delay unless you have a reason to do it (e.g. the bass distortion of a DBP 7+4).
- Use Natural Dynamics and AutoEQ sparingly.
- AGC Matrix Mode should only be used without other ST enhancers, and even then only sparingly. ACR works better.

My $2 worth, hope it helps!
Author:  hantatar [ Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
Quote:
Gave it a try. Hate to be harsh or critical, but at least on my setup it sounds like a tape being chewed up. Extremely rapid wow and flutter. I solved it by significantly decreasing the Levels > Density settings for MB2 and increasing the attack/release times for both MB1 and MB2, as well as disabling Single Band.

Some rules of thumb I follow when designing presets to get smoother signal tracking:
- I read somewhere that Multiband 2 is hard-coded to be analog mode only. Why? I have no idea it just is. But it explains why it reacts more harshly than MB1 placed in digital mode. I use it for a light amount of post-leveling and limiting.
- Attack times on MB1 (digital) should be minimum 1ms, release should be minimum 20ms.
- Attack times on MB2 should be minimum 10ms, release should be minimum 75ms.
- Never limit more than 10dB.
- Only use Azimuth, Stereo Boost and ACR Stereo. The other options sound like a low bit-rate MP3 file.
- Don't phase delay unless you have a reason to do it (e.g. the bass distortion of a DBP 7+4).
- Use Natural Dynamics and AutoEQ sparingly.
- AGC Matrix Mode should only be used without other ST enhancers, and even then only sparingly. ACR works better.

My $2 worth, hope it helps!
I am really happy that the highs fluctuating was caused by my settings and not my computer. I traced this problem down to be caused by the AutoEQ being set to protect abrupt changes and the noise gate. The singleband was a lazy solution to this problem, but it squashed the sound really bad.

I also observed it sounds like tape, getting random hissing noise on soft parts of any music. Traced this down to the Stereo Image generating a kind of weird separation.

So I gave it another try and to my ears it sounds better. I still want an opinion on it. I will make more changes to the settings when I get to repair my testing low-power FM transmitter. Until then, improvements are welcome.

Attachments:
File comment: I don't know why my presets are always more than 200 KB...
FM-modified-new.zip [125.21 KiB]
Downloaded 309 times
Author:  Dale.Sharp [ Tue Nov 12, 2024 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
Well... Firstly... your preset sends my system to 60%+ cpu util... and Its a Ryzen 9 - 12 core!

More observations,
1) Your gain structures are not right.. the AGC hardly does anything +2.0 on the final clipper
this leads me to believe your gain structure is not what it should be
2) you have 200% L-R with 20 msec delay.. This is bad.. and causing reverb
3) if your going to use this on FM, your going to find it hard to get constant 100% mod

I'll have a bit of a play and post it back for you
Author:  hantatar [ Tue Nov 12, 2024 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
Quote:
Well... Firstly... your preset sends my system to 60%+ cpu util... and Its a Ryzen 9 - 12 core!

More observations,
1) Your gain structures are not right.. the AGC hardly does anything +2.0 on the final clipper
this leads me to believe your gain structure is not what it should be
2) you have 200% L-R with 20 msec delay.. This is bad.. and causing reverb
3) if your going to use this on FM, your going to find it hard to get constant 100% mod

I'll have a bit of a play and post it back for you
On my system the CPU usage is pretty low when I'm not playing music that activates Absolute Highs. But even then it stays like 30% usage on Ryzen 3, 6 cores
Author:  Dale.Sharp [ Wed Nov 13, 2024 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
[/quote]
On my system the CPU usage is pretty low when I'm not playing music that activates Absolute Highs. But even then it stays like 30% usage on Ryzen 3, 6 cores
[/quote]


OK I first un-bloated your preset, its now small enough to be posted without zip

So, all I did to your preset is change the gains, reduced stereo delay to a more realistic figure
and turned off stereo reverb and set the Bandpass filter to 15k

I didnt change any of your processing.. just levels

You will notice the output scope is full most of the time now.

I actually think thats quite easy to listen to now :)

Attachments:
FM-modified-ds - 2024-11-13.sts [169.64 KiB]
Downloaded 317 times
Author:  hantatar [ Wed Nov 13, 2024 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
Quote:
OK I first un-bloated your preset, its now small enough to be posted without zip

So, all I did to your preset is change the gains, reduced stereo delay to a more realistic figure
and turned off stereo reverb and set the Bandpass filter to 15k

I didnt change any of your processing.. just levels

You will notice the output scope is full most of the time now.

I actually think thats quite easy to listen to now :)
Thank you very much for letting me know that the preset was bloated. I still can't understand what causes that, but when I loaded the preset on my system everything was broken.

The multibands were maxing out, the audio was distorted out to the max and so on. This led me to realize that it's not my settings that makes everything sound awful, but something with the ST installation. I reinstalled it and it works like a charm now, this preset sounds great, the setting really work as I expect them to and just everything works. And to mention that my CPU usage dropped a lot.

Still one more question, how do you unbloat a preset? And what causes it?
Author:  Dale.Sharp [ Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
Quote:
Quote:
OK I first un-bloated your preset, its now small enough to be posted without zip

So, all I did to your preset is change the gains, reduced stereo delay to a more realistic figure
and turned off stereo reverb and set the Bandpass filter to 15k

I didnt change any of your processing.. just levels

You will notice the output scope is full most of the time now.

I actually think thats quite easy to listen to now :)
Thank you very much for letting me know that the preset was bloated. I still can't understand what causes that, but when I loaded the preset on my system everything was broken.

The multibands were maxing out, the audio was distorted out to the max and so on. This led me to realize that it's not my settings that makes everything sound awful, but something with the ST installation. I reinstalled it and it works like a charm now, this preset sounds great, the setting really work as I expect them to and just everything works. And to mention that my CPU usage dropped a lot.

Still one more question, how do you unbloat a preset? And what causes it?
I am not sure what causes ST to write a heap of settings (nearly 200k) of levels in the preset.

Maybe @hvz can answer this

Glad you like the changes,
There is still a bit of distortion on some songs and pretty sure you'll see unexpected overshoot peaks when you put this onair

Anyway enjoy!
Author:  Dale.Sharp [ Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rate this preset for FM
Getting close to clipping is the ultimate goal!

anything over 1db of clipping is my limit
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