Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 5.02
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=2661		 Page 94 of 99
Author:  phoenix [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
BETA72:
- VST audio issue (Are you using VST?)
BETA73:Effect on the sound is very small.
This version has been reported to sound bad...

BETA74:
- Restored BETA72 highs processing, but did fix highs vibration bug. (I had the choice between removing it or fixing it - in BETA73 I removed it, now I fixed it). (*)
- Added Bojcha's web preset (Addiction V7)
Based on feedback that I received, I expect the sound to be still good here...

(*) I don't know what is better. The comment from Chris seems to indicate that it was worse - current sound is closer to the BETA72 sound. But actually I would expect the BETA73 to sound better.....

BETA75:This should have NO effect in your preset, since you're using 'very strict' bass clipping...

BETA76:
- Optimized some code to reduce CPU load with no audio changes
- Removed some filters that filtered low clipping artifacts in high frequency areas - seems to have very little effect (probably no effect on the quality). But it might have - but still, this does not affect your preset because you've selected 'Very strict' filtering. I've not optimized that.
- Added a 'Filter' checkbox to enable/disable filtering clipping effects for very low bass frequencies (the 0-150/350 Hz part). Turning this on SLIGHTLY (1-3%) reduces the bass level (eg. filtering is stricter). Not sure if it has any effect on the audio quality (should be VERY little if any); it does reduce Loudness CPU load by 5%. Did you turn this filter on? If not that's another difference - and it would be my prime suspect (there's a reason I added a checkbox for it and didn't just remove it!) Also, this is the only setting for which it makes sense that it has an impact on Punch. Note: This setting is NOT yet saved!

BETA77: [Waiting for complaints! Is there a reason to want to be able to turn it on anyway?]


My guess would be that BETA75 is still OK, and BETA76 is not - and then the question is whether it's the new low bass filter ('Filter') or the removed protection of highs against high frequency distortion from clipped lows - or even both.

I'll do some more tests tomorrow.

Ow. Just realized: So far I've been comparing the sound between versions WITHOUT turning 'Very strict' on, there could even be a bug somewhere that I just missed. Again, will do some tests tomorrow...

Yes I used VST version. As far as I could recollect the beta 72 changes in VST plugins concerned sampling rates(if I am not wrong). Althrough my tests I have used 44.1 KHz files. So my guess is beta 72 SHOULD sound the same as beta 70A/71.

The only new beta that I 've checked my preset with is beta76. So I skipped a good 4 releases. I intend to check them once I reach home. However I have not used any setting that was newly introduced in beta76. Infact the preset that I uploaded was saved from beta 71. And moreover I was too excited with the sound of beta 71 that I didn't care to check the features of beta76(which I should have done)!
Author:  hvz [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
The only new beta that I 've checked my preset with is beta76. So I skipped a good 4 releases. I intend to check them once I reach home. However I have not used any setting that was newly introduced in beta76. Infact the preset that I uploaded was saved from beta 71. And moreover I was too excited with the sound of beta 71 that I didn't care to check the features of beta76(which I should have done)!
The new checkbox in BETA76 sounds different if it's turned OFF! So you need to turn it ON to get the same sound as in BETA71..... :shock: (I expected no or extremely little difference from this, but I could be wrong of course).

So my approach would be:
1. Try latest BETA with 'Filter' enabled. If that sounds good --> Done.
2. Try BETA72 (VST), if that's already worse then it must be the VST stuff.
Author:  hvz [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Analysis (to Phoenix):

BETA71 -> BETA72: Big change (which I didn't expect!)
BETA72 -> BETA74: Nearly no effect with your preset
BETA74 -> BETA75: A bit more difference (not expected!). PROBABLY not enough to be really noticeable though.
BETA75 -> BETA76 (+ 'Filter'): Difference! (not expected!)

I guess I have some work to do.... The biggest change is between BETA71 and BETA72.
Author:  hvz [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
To Phoenix:

Another small issue: If you open the new VST version, 'highs burst' will be set too low - you'll have to fix that manually. (Cause is that previously I stored it incorrectly, now it should be fine).
Author:  hvz [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
No idea how this is possible, but I'm now repeating my measurements because weird things kept happening to BETA71, and now BETA71 and BETA72 are identical... BETA74 is still very close (and is a bug fix).

So now the suspects are BETA75 and BETA76.
Author:  phoenix [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Analysis (to Phoenix):

BETA71 -> BETA72: Big change (which I didn't expect!)
I guess I have some work to do.... The biggest change is between BETA71 and BETA72.
Is that specific to VST plugin or is it in general(I mean applies to all versions of the same beta)?
Author:  phoenix [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Analysis (to Phoenix):

BETA71 -> BETA72: Big change (which I didn't expect!)
I guess I have some work to do.... The biggest change is between BETA71 and BETA72.
Is that specific to VST plugin or is it in general(I mean applies to all versions of the same beta)?
Quote:
Another small issue: If you open the new VST version, 'highs burst' will be set too low - you'll have to fix that manually. (Cause is that previously I stored it incorrectly, now it should be fine).
New as in beta releases after 71? I mean doesn't explicitly setting the Highs Burst in the sts file take care of that? Well I've no clue of the behaviour of this parameter in beta 71. I think it worked fine. Let me have a second look. Hope this is not host dependent...
Author:  hvz [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Phoenix: This was ONLY if you use the VST host to load the parameters. There was a small bug: The value (in VST) must be between 0 and 1, and it ran from 0 to 2 - so SOME VST hosts would not store it correctly. Now it runs from 0 to 0.2 - so there's some headroom - but if you load parameters from an older BETA '1' will be interpreted as '0.1'...


Note: BETA75 differs from BETA74 because in BETA75 I'm looking at the channel with the loudest bass instead of always the left channel to detect voice vibrations. So the difference between BETA74 and BETA75 should not cause what you describe (for mono sounds, they are identical).

Which leaves BETA76... (Which does indeed show some differences, which get larger when the audio is really loud - so that might explain the Punch effect).
Author:  phoenix [ Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Ok went back all the way till 70 A and re-downloaded all VST versions till beta76. I don't find (hear) perceptible differences from 70 A ~ 74. Slight difference in some tracks between 70A/71 vs 72, however the sound is still open. The change is in tonality(too slight).
And this is carried all the way till beta 74.
beta 75 is too close to 74. I am not able to get anything concerete to differentiate
EDIT
I find real aberration appearing in beta76! In terms of losing open-ness, downsampled highs...'sss' sounds like 'sshh'. I mean sibilances are attenuated. Filter enabling doesnot do any justice either. Well as far as punch is concerned, the difference surfaces out only on certain tracks with squashed punchy sound like Armin's Mirage. Tonal degradation is for sure. Double checked with Toni Braxton's 'Unbreak My Heart'...very obvious.
Author:  hvz [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Oops! Well, I found it...

Since the Loudness filter is rather heavy, in the bass clipping parts I told the filter to forget frequencies above the bass lowpass frequency (performance optimization). But... I forgot that the filter starts dropping the output level at LOWER frequencies than the one I specify already. :oops:

Also, there is a lowpass filtering step (protecting highs against distortion from lows) that I had turned off. I don't think that this gave noticeable differences, but I'm not sure.

Now building a new version where everything is back to the way it was in BETA75. Will do some CPU usage measurements tomorrow to see if it's useful to try to make these two improvements or not.
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