Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 5.02
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=2661		 Page 90 of 99
Author:  Bojcha [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
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Been playing with some settings and to my surprise I found that disabling the final limiter makes things much less pumping, more consistant, opener and actually louder too.
I checked the output and I don't really hear any distortion and due to the hard limit I can't see any peaks above 100%.
Really? That would be great news - I was trying to reduce the CPU load by simplifying and optimizing the Loudness filter, but if this filter can be turned off it should reduce the CPU load considerably.
(Actually this is starting to make sense to me now: Before Loudness contained some filters that didn't really perform very well. I've improved them now, so they should be far better able to handle loud sounds. And I didn't improve Final Limiter in the same way.)
I guess I should then always enable the final limiter 'Low CPU usage' mode if Loudness is enabled (because that basically bypasses the Final Limiter, but its volume slider still works.)
That's why my new preset don't use Final Limiter. Agree with Luke, less pumping and less you can feel Final Processing.
And important thing, Punch is much better.
Author:  Chris [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
what do you mean by final limiter?? Do you mean Bandpass on Freq allow from 50 ~ 16100 Khz ? sorry i lost it... :(
tomorow or later afternoon i will check this latest beta.
Author:  Luke [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
what do you mean by final limiter?? Do you mean Bandpass on Freq allow from 50 ~ 16100 Khz ? sorry i lost it... :(
tomorow or later afternoon i will check this latest beta.

It's in the 'limiting and loudness' window. Just above 'loudness'.
Author:  camclone [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
wowowowowow!

I CONFIRM !!

I also disabled final limiter and :

( if final limiter is disabled in " heavy loudness presets.. " )

1) dynamics puping is gone completely!!! yes yes yes!!
2) bass is cleaner and deaper !!!
3) music sounds louder and at the same time it has more dynamics ( to my ears!!)
4) much less DC sound phenomenon !
5) less CPU usage ! ( only 17 % in my intel 4core )
and finnaly .... LATEST STEREOTOOL IS LOUDER AND CLEANER THAN BREAKAWAY BY 30 % as mesured by orban loudness ..and my ears also.. :)
check : windows media stream 128kb

[url]mms://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm/[/url]
http://1045fm.live24.gr/1045fm/
( listen for more than 6 minutes becuse some bad old tracks play sometimes from 80s ) ( THIS IS my 120 kwatt FM PROCESSING 50 ms)


...just delete this " final limiter " from stereotool !!

( you can hear the difference ( more clean n loud by disabling this " final limiter " ONLY IF YOU make A VERY VERY LOUD PRESET .
( using the default presets in stereotool the difference by enabling or disabling final limiter is much less audible )
Author:  michi95 [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
...just delete this " final limiter " from stereotool !!
No, improve it (based on latest loudness filter improvements).
Where is the problem to turn Final Limiter manually off ?
Please keep in mind Stereo Tool is not used by radio guys only.
There are many people like me that do not use loudness for their home listening or other processing (we need as much dynamics as possible, but no loudness !).
Without loudness there must be something like the Final Limter (but improved) !
Author:  Marino [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
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...just delete this " final limiter " from stereotool !!
No, improve it (based on latest loudness filter improvements).
Where is the problem to turn Final Limiter manually off ?
Please keep in mind Stereo Tool is not used by radio guys only.
There are many people like me that do not use loudness for their home listening or other processing (we need as much dynamics as possible, but no loudness !).
Without loudness there must be something like the Final Limter (but improved) !
I agree with you Michi. I'm not using loudness for some webradio either and need some kind of nice final limiting.
Author:  Brian [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Question in regards to CPU usage / SSE:

I use the Winamp plugin for just general home use, no broadcasting, so I too am interested in the improvements in the Final Limiter rather than abandoning it.

Anayway, the processing power needed has increased some over time, as has been noted. I see there was some mention of a processing library dropping SSE2 and SSE3 support way back with the 5.02 beta. Is that still the case?
Author:  Luke [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Hi Brian and others,

No idea why you want to have a final limiter if the peaks never go over 100%. Well it sounds strange in digital audio anyway 1111111..1 you can't really go beyond that. ... except if you set the max volume below that certain (digital) level.
The fact that it doesn't really seem to clip, go over a certain level or cause audible distortion says to me that you don't need anything behind it.

The loudness thing, well I guess it is just a name. Maybe Hans can define what it actually does?
Author:  Brian [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Hi Brian and others,

No idea why you want to have a final limiter if the peaks never go over 100%. Well it sounds strange in digital audio anyway 1111111..1 you can't really go beyond that. ... except if you set the max volume below that certain (digital) level.
The fact that it doesn't really seem to clip, go over a certain level or cause audible distortion says to me that you don't need anything behind it.

The loudness thing, well I guess it is just a name. Maybe Hans can define what it actually does?
I'm tinkering with it some, but I am unable to turn the volume up today due to the, ummm, surroundings (people will complain), so I'm not sure the overall effect.

One other thing I should state is that I'm not any kind of professional sound / recording engineer. I did some volunteer work with some churches and small concerts nearly 20 years ago, but nothing beyond that. I don't have any specialized training or any special equipment other than my ears. So, you may very well be onto something about peaks never going over 100%, although I am allowing peaks up to 150% :)

Anyway, my main question was about SSE usage. I have an Athlon 64 3700+ (San Diego core), so my CPU will do SSE3, but there was a post back in July from Hanz saying that a processing library he was using had dropped SSE2 and SSE3 support, so I was wondering what was being used now, and if it isn't at least SSE2, can another library be found to provide SSE2 support? Also, has any effort been made for SSE3 support, because SSE3 does give a few options that are DSP-friendly.
Author:  DUB<^>STEP [ Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
don't forget people you might think that getting rid of the final limiter is a good idea but don't forget I use it to ( and so do other people ) ....BUT i use for transmitting and NON transmitting.

if anything it needs to be improved on.


I mean I use stereo tool nearly 24/7 as its the dsp for my pc. its always in use for as long as I am on my pc, and I use my pc a lot. and i love music so YOU do the math.

( and it gets used a lot for youtube lol you'd be surprised it workes very well)
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