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| Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=4448 |
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| Author: | Bojcha [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
Steep or not steep slopes actually do almost nothing. I suggest You to try yourself. Turn 2 bands mode with crossover around 150-250Hz and try to make sweep flat. In best case what You'll see is 4-5dB difference in sweep, no metter how you set steepness! Here is my band test settings: http://i.imgur.com/4AfJX9H.png for around 200Hz crossover. With more number of bands difference is less (but still noticable difference), which logically means that 9 (max) bands will be best current choice, and it is. And BTW, AGC is not working good (2 or 3 bands) That is still steep slope and also in my 2nd test, one page back, sweep should be NOT flat. |
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| Author: | Brian [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
I have noticed an extreme change in the Classic multiband. Bands that were formerly showing green-yellow to yellow are now very much in the red, and other bands are indicating more compression as well. This impacts all built-in presets based on the "Classic" stuff. There is also a minor color scheme change involved with the "allowed difference" (not sure if that's the right wording). It used to show up as a lighter color behind the current color, and now it too is always red. That might be ok, as it makes it more visible. I don't know if this happened in 44, or if it was 42 or 43, as I didn't test 42 or 43. I can check that later, if it is needed. I also don't know if this is just a cosmetic change and the actual audio aspects are still the way they were before. |
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| Author: | DJ-DOGGY [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
FOUND IT !!! The most of the "blop blop" effect is coming when enable the 3 band AGC !! 2 bands OK 1 band OK But when i click for 3 bands - blop blop is there . Some weird things are happen when enable the third band !??! Also when i enable it with 40 Hz wave input .. even Advanced clipper is affected somehow ! I don`t understand that one . third AGC band causing wave vibrating at almost 90% . Some 10% vibrating is still causing from MB ( old and new). This vibrating causing the BLOP BLOP effect . Hans ? May be you must make all 3 AGC bands to take settings from one place ( like first and second band) |
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| Author: | hvz [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
Quote: I have noticed an extreme change in the Classic multiband. Bands that were formerly showing green-yellow to yellow are now very much in the red, and other bands are indicating more compression as well. This impacts all built-in presets based on the "Classic" stuff. There is also a minor color scheme change involved with the "allowed difference" (not sure if that's the right wording). It used to show up as a lighter color behind the current color, and now it too is always red. That might be ok, as it makes it more visible.
Cosmetic change: I changed it because in the *new* multiband this shows that 'volume burst' protection is active. The old one will indeed look strange... I guess I should split it to display the old colors when you're using the old MB.
I don't know if this happened in 44, or if it was 42 or 43, as I didn't test 42 or 43. I can check that later, if it is needed. I also don't know if this is just a cosmetic change and the actual audio aspects are still the way they were before. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
Quote: Steep or not steep slopes actually do almost nothing. I suggest You to try yourself. Turn 2 bands mode with crossover around 150-250Hz and try to make sweep flat.
Ok, with feedback and many bands it's far less noticeable, and I hadn't realized how big the effect could be with less bands. The good news is that I know the solution (already used it in the old multiband), and it might actually solve some other things as well. Although it could also create new problems, and it won't completely fix the issue.In best case what You'll see is 4-5dB difference in sweep, no metter how you set steepness! Here is my band settings: http://i.imgur.com/4AfJX9H.png for around 200Hz crossover. With more number of bands difference is less (but still noticable difference), which logically means that 9 (max) bands will be best current choice, and it is. What I think I need to do is use a sideband where the lowering of the slope (in both directions) starts later - probably around the crossover point. Also, this sideband should not be compensated to reach a total level of 1, so for example a low frequency band with much overlap with the next band will respond as if it peaks to 100% - no need to adjust the threshold for it. Quote: And BTW, AGC is not working good (2 or 3 bands) That is still steep slope and also in my 2nd test, one page back, sweep should be NOT flat.
It's far less steep than before - at least 4 times less in my measurements - but it's probably a good idea to change the filter between the two bands further. I don't understand yet what's happening with the flat response, and DJ_DOGGY just reported a 'blobblobblob' issue with band 3 - so this will need some more work.In Multiband, I found that the burst protection with the new limitation that I added today it is working really well - it's almost never active when it doesn't need to be anymore. But there's one problem: You hear the protection kick in now, because the effect is switched on 10-20 samples too late. So I need to add some lookahead behavior. I'll probably not post any new beta's until these issues are resolved. Also: SCA is gone from the GUI, need to add it again for one station. |
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| Author: | Brian [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
Quote: Quote: I have noticed an extreme change in the Classic multiband. Bands that were formerly showing green-yellow to yellow are now very much in the red, and other bands are indicating more compression as well. This impacts all built-in presets based on the "Classic" stuff. There is also a minor color scheme change involved with the "allowed difference" (not sure if that's the right wording). It used to show up as a lighter color behind the current color, and now it too is always red. That might be ok, as it makes it more visible.
Cosmetic change: I changed it because in the *new* multiband this shows that 'volume burst' protection is active. The old one will indeed look strange... I guess I should split it to display the old colors when you're using the old MB.I don't know if this happened in 44, or if it was 42 or 43, as I didn't test 42 or 43. I can check that later, if it is needed. I also don't know if this is just a cosmetic change and the actual audio aspects are still the way they were before. What about the bands showing more total compression than before? Cascade impact from AGC change? An example of that is with Wacka Flocka Flame - "No Hands", band 1 (40 Hz) previously left 4-5 bars at the bottom. Now it routinely goes all the way to the bottom. It's not the color change for the volume burst protection either, as that is a darker red. |
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| Author: | Bojcha [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
I don't know what you'll do but result should be flat 'signal' with all number of bands. As i told you erlier, you need to design/calculate crossover(s) for all number of bands and remove that graphic which can just make headache. Moving just one band a few Hz/kHz will make bad things in 2 bands before and after that band. Also for first 2 or 3 bands.. if not possible to make flat and to keep steepness.. blend them. If not possible anywhere to keep "flatness" make some bands sligntly non-linear or.. whatever it needs to be flat. It would be also good to keep just one detection and mode, whatever it would be, since, as you notice FF and FB make some difference, and (i didn't check that) Peek vs RMS makes that difference too. All thing about compression and speeds and range and etc.. is waste of time since basis is not right. Also, there is many surrounding things, like HPF, and i showed you how big difference is when HPF is before or after MB. Everything counts. |
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| Author: | DJ-DOGGY [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
You guys must know that HPF or Steepness of the AGC bands are causing any problems ... NO Hans you freely can change back the steepness of the first band AGC , no any issue with it .. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
@Bojcha: Completely flat is probably not even possible. Say there are 3 bands, and I somehow managed to get the response flat at the first crossover. And say that we're using feedforward mode, ratio 1000:1. Now at the crossover of band 1/2, the 3rd band still have some content, let's say it's at -30 dB. Now... If I drive the input hard enough, the very weak signal in band 3 will still be amplified to the threshold level, and still cause a +6 dB boost at the crossover of band 1/2. A lot of things can reduce this effect: - Feedback mode - Lower ratio settings - Sideband as I described earlier (that's something that I'll add, it should help a lot) For example, say that I use a sideband that is 6 dB above the standard slopes (so it's at 0 dB at the crossover with the adjacent bands), then the signal of band 3 will always be at least 6 dB lower than that of the other bands at the 1/2 crossover position, which will reduce the effect greatly - instead of being 6 dB too loud it will be about 1.5 dB too loud. But, it will never be perfectly flat. By the way, I talked to someone who has experience with several hardware boxes, he basically said that "they sound so good just because they are NOT linear". Now, I know what making the bands linear did to the old multiband - it really improved the sound - so I'll do something similar here. But without the extremely steep slopes of the old multband, just don't expect the result to be perfectly flat. By the way: If I do it correctly, I can use the new sideband to reduce compression/limiting artifacts by 6 dB. Similar to the "Use post filter" in the old MB. |
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| Author: | DJ-DOGGY [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 7.03 BETA |
I get few crashes tonight When switch between the number of bands ( i know that was reported ) but i can say when exactly is done .. When click on the band number slider and bands are 5 and switches to 6. Today i cannot reproduce this . |
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