Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 6.00
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Author:  Bojcha [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

Quote:
- Testing some more there are also clicks when hitting the restart button with multiple CPU cores and with higher buffers even with 10.0 ms.
Why 'restart" button ? It's normal to hear click when you hit "restart"

Are you hearing clicks/pops when you move/resize windows .. etc ?
48kHz / 64 samples / 512saples mode / High or real-time priority

Author:  eldoradofm [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

Quote:
Quote:
Only stand alone. The others cannot reach such a short latency anyway.
The reason I ask is under higher CPU loads, particularly with any Flash content running, the GUI window has issues closing down. Sometimes it will just hang until the load is gone, while other times it will turn to a gray window with the Bass Boost bars still moving...

Might just be something I have to deal with, but thought I'd mention it. This computer was built for running Doom 3, and was relatively state-of-the-art back then, but not now... :(
I'm having the same issues, have reported it earlier. When i turn ESET NOD32 off it closes ok. It's probably because the little icon in the taskbar is generated when you minimize stereotool and not when stereotool is started.

Author:  eldoradofm [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

Quote:
Quote:
- Testing some more there are also clicks when hitting the restart button with multiple CPU cores and with higher buffers even with 10.0 ms.
Why 'restart" button ? It's normal to hear click when you hit "restart"

Are you hearing clicks/pops when you move/resize windows .. etc ?
48kHz / 64 samples / 512saples mode / High or real-time priority
Ok i'll explain a bit more.
- I hear the usual click when hitting restart but what i meant was i hear clicks after hitting restart and then moving windows around like for example the taskmanager.
- Tested with 192 kHz using FM transmitter output, set ESI juli@ to latency of 256 samples , stereotool to latency of 512 and the buffers i described earlier.
- And real-time priority set in stereotool

- The click problem exists when the first core is having the biggest load when looking at it on the task manager.

Author:  hvz [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

Quote:
The reason I ask is under higher CPU loads, particularly with any Flash content running, the GUI window has issues closing down. Sometimes it will just hang until the load is gone, while other times it will turn to a gray window with the Bass Boost bars still moving...
In the version I'm building now I've set the GUI priority to NORMAL again (was IDLE in the BETA030 version.) So I expect (hope) that that will solve it... - please let me know!

Author:  hvz [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

Quote:
Ok i'll explain a bit more.
- I hear the usual click when hitting restart but what i meant was i hear clicks after hitting restart and then moving windows around like for example the taskmanager.
- Tested with 192 kHz using FM transmitter output, set ESI juli@ to latency of 256 samples , stereotool to latency of 512 and the buffers i described earlier.
- And real-time priority set in stereotool

- The click problem exists when the first core is having the biggest load when looking at it on the task manager.
Odd. Does this also happen if you minimize the Stereo Tool window? (Just to rule out my own GUI thread, because I increased the priority again and turned it on again in this version).

Didn't you have some clicks earlier even with very large buffer sizes? That would then be caused by the ASIO thread itself, which should never be interrupted (it's coming from the ASIO driver itself and does almost nothing).

Could it be that there's something on your system that's using the first core? (You ran this tool to check for DCP issues, right? http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml - what does this show when you are getting hiccups?)

I'm building a new version now where I've made some small changes, among others I'm now displaying an error message if the priority cannot be set to REALTIME. And it's easier to set small buffer sizes.

Author:  Brian [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

Quote:
Quote:
The reason I ask is under higher CPU loads, particularly with any Flash content running, the GUI window has issues closing down. Sometimes it will just hang until the load is gone, while other times it will turn to a gray window with the Bass Boost bars still moving...
In the version I'm building now I've set the GUI priority to NORMAL again (was IDLE in the BETA030 version.) So I expect (hope) that that will solve it... - please let me know!
This has been happening for a while now...possibly as far back as 5.02...so I will try, but I tend to doubt it...

Author:  hvz [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

Quote:
This has been happening for a while now...possibly as far back as 5.02...so I will try, but I tend to doubt it...
Which version are you using? Stand alone, VST, DSP, Linux? And how long does it hang? Does audio keep playing though it? (apparently yes, if you still see the bass bars moving)

I did notice today a few times that the stand alone version locked up during closing - but that seems to be a stand-alone version specific issue. (Added to todo list)

Author:  hvz [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

BETA601-031:
- ASIO clicks and pops issue should be solved
- GUI thread set to normal latency again, but kept as a separate thread (makes updates smoother when moving over the Stereo Tool window; avoids extreme CPU load during such movements).

QUESTIONS
eldoradofm: Can you check if setting the thread to real-time priority does indeed work on your system? (if not, there's now a popup window, before there was no notification).
bojcha: I *think* the 'strange sound in bass boost' at latency 512 is solved - I've been unable to reproduce it since BETA030. If you still get it, please let me know...
bojcha: You had some doubts in one of the earliest 601-BETA's about the new Punch behavior, and I moved a step further since that. Should I attempt to let Punch sound as much as before as possible as long as it doesn't introduce distortion? This is at all latencies (so also 4096).
anyone: No comments about more bass artifacts at latency 512 since BETA030? Because there are.... But the change that causes them is also greatly improving the highs (avoiding vibrations) if loud bass sounds are present. Mainly present for bass sounds between 60 and 80 Hz.

Winamp DSP plugin: http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_ ... 01-031.exe
Stand alone version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 01-031.exe
VST version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 01-031.dll
VST version (No SSE2): http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 01-031.dll
Command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 01-031.exe
Linux command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA601-031 [not available]
Linux GUI version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA601-031 [not available]


What remains for 6.01:
- Multiband: Adjust band 3 (and others?) 'soft limit' behavior at very low latencies. Maybe: Also check clipping (also for band 3, might be re-enabled!). DONE! - 1 hour
- Multiband: Adjust extreme EQ settings before processing to avoid issues caused by steepness. - 1 hour
- Multiband: Add 'Enable' button for steepness. 1 hour
- Performance: Multiband steepness: Moving UP can be done inside current loop, no separate loop needed. Maybe down too. Currently Multiband is FAR more expensive than before. - DONE, solved in a different way. - 1 day
- MAYBE: Make Steepness smarter. That would much better preserve the audio, especially at very low latencies! How: Instead of setting all the levels at AT MOST the level of neighboring bands + a bit, combine adjacent bands, determine total output level, and then fix it such that this combined output level is approached more. (So one very low, one very high --> one a bit less low, one a bit less high instead of both low).
- Fix NOISE GATE behavior in VST plugin
- Fix 'red output bar' issue. DONE - 1 day?
- Fix Highpass filter for higher input frequencies.
- Dynamic audio processing window: I've tested this at latency 512, and there it helps. But I don't have a clue what the effect is on higher latencies. They might also sound better, but they could just as well sound worse. - 2 hours. Result: 512 and 1024 got better, 2048 and 4096 got worse. So only turned on for the first two.
- Dynamic audio processing window: CPU load is probably a lot higher (haven't measured it yet) due to the dynamic adjustment of the behavior. The dynamic code was originally intended to be executed only once when a latency was selected, and it's not optimized at all. Fixed, CPU load reduced, and for latency 2048 and 4096 there's no difference. - Optimize, 1 day
- Reduce downsampling frequency because currently very high frequencies (21-22 kHz @ 176.4 kHz input sampling rate) in the input can cause spikes even if Hard Limit is used. DONE - 1 hour
- Vibrations caused by Very deep bass distortion protection at latency 1024. Also (but far less noticeable) in higher latency modes. No issue at latency 512 because there it's turned off. - Fixed, turned it on for latency 512, and turned other bass filter OFF for 512 because it caused distortion.
- Check difference in behavior between 44.1 and 48 kHz input for multiband! This could potentially result in really big differences. - No
- Performance: Multiband: Remove sqrt(sqrt(cos())), pow(x, .75) etc. - too expensive, replace by lookup table. - NOT FOR NOW, would increase memory usage and hence risk more page faults, so it's not sure that this would improve the performance. - 2 hours
- Performance: Move chain variables to a single Struct DONE - 1 hour
- Latency: Attempt to reduce Composite Limiter sampling latency - there is no audio anywhere near the filter frequency, so a much shorter delay might still work very well - DONE, composite limiter latency is now 0.9 ms at latencies 512 and 1024 (~1.7-2 ms at higher latencies)! It can be reduced a step further (to 0.5 ms) if I allow a bit more distortion - don't know if that's useful.
- Chris: "I still hear diff on Bass and kick between Beta 16 vs Beta 08 on 2048 latency. I hear more bass and kick on Beta 08. Pls check!" - No longer true, apparently fixed in BETA020... (Which does not make sense at all, but anyway)
- And I need to check how much the performance is impacted by the latency improvements, in the case where no upsampling and downsampling is needed. This seems to be impacted way more than I expected (could also be Multiband steepness --> Not anymore, fixed). Ah, got part of it: 1% is steepness. Which leaves about 3% to be explained. Het is NIET de FM Hard Limit - ook al bereken ik daar nu meer van. Wellicht chain2 calls? - No, wrong again. Decreased Steepness grain match from every 4 to every 16 samples, extra CPU load is now only 2% - acceptable.
- Fix BYPASS mode in stand alone version DONE
- Fix 4096 in stand alone version
- ASIO latency: Add configurable ASIO granularity
- ASIO latency: Add active output push instead of reactive. - No longer needed - I think. Data is now sent to output BEFORE processing. And there's always some processing delay. Might become more interesting when CPU load goes down.
- ASIO latency: Make option to increase ST priority. DONE
- Check ASIO on single core behavior... DONE, option available
- Change ASIO latency interface (lower values, more fine-grained; display actual latency after rounding)
- Attempt to set GAUSS back to 0 - gives MUCH better processing of most filters (no high frequency noise). BUT: Loudness effect in Bjork - It's Oh So Quiet - can that be resolved in another way? - WAIT FOR FEEDBACK
- Frequencies between 60 and 75 Hz are not handled properly yet, and can still cause vibration effects at soft high frequencies in latency 512 mode. (But FAR less than in version 6.00). Fixing this will probably increase artifacts for bass in this frequency range. - WAIT FOR FEEDBACK - Make this level depend on the input level (gives less artifacts when not needed) DONE
- Set Steepness a bit higher than before because there are far less artifacts. DONE
- Bojcha: "There is strange "tone" at LEFT channel (tested ST dsp), caused by Bass Boost, but not always!" - Seems gone now - DONE
- Something is wrong with ASIO if there's only one channel instead of 2.
- Bypass is not good again
- phoenix: Direct sound at any buffer doesnot work unless MultiCore is ENABLED! FIXED
- phoenix: "Change of Thread Priority: Now this really needs working. I'll try to make you understand the pattern that I'm observing. Normal and High donot work. Only REALTIME works depending upon whether ST is run using elevated privileges or not. So if I run ST as Admin, it changes to REALTIME in Win 7/Win Vista, else it sets it to HIGH. Now clicking on Normal or High puts it back to the priority at which ST was running just before setting it to REALTIME. So if it was set to Above Normal(using task manager), it reverts to that when clicked on Normal or High from ST Sound Confg Window." - BEHAVIOR UPDATED
- bojcha: When i change Soundcards samples it should ask me to restart program or somehow to deal with it. Currently it hangs. Moving buffer size or bypass ON/OFF, resolves it. - REPORTED TO BE OK NOW
- phoenix: ASIO sound disappears on enabling multicore. - SOLVED
- Check/fix Bass Boost ringing reported by Bojcha for higher 'upto' frequencies. REDUCED it a bit, hope that suffices... Less steep filtering (ie. bigger difference between first 2 frequencies) helps.
- Hangups during closing of stand alone version. (hThread)
- I notice when Opening and starting program is a bit slower, minimizing to tray slower too. but it's ok.
- Change buffer size configuration to match whole ASIO grains (probably only displaying them)
- Fix different priority settings (GUI back to normal prio)
- Allow setting Realtime priority on Vista (if possible, Admin rights?)

Questions:
* Multiband: Question: Is Steepness behavior ok? - AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE NOW, AND CAN BE TURNED OFF.
* Loudness: QUESTION: The changed Punch behavior, is that good or bad? Should I attempt to let Punch behave as it did in the past as much as possible, or not?


For 6.02:
- It's possible to send data to an audio buffer AFTER I've returned control to the driver if I call ASIOOutputReady() when I'm ready
- Add non-phase linear Multiband stage between AGC and incoming_copy_needed.
- Use double overlap (allow quality levels > 100%) to strongly reduce artifacts
- Introduce extra latency between 512 and 1024 by upsampling or downsampling

Author:  Bojcha [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

beta31: Still all good! Even with maximized window!

- I notice when Opening and starting program is a bit slower, minimizing to tray slower too. but it's ok.
- When i change Soundcards samples it should ask me to restart program or somehow to deal with it. Currently it hangs. Moving buffer size or bypass ON/OFF, resolves it.
- Bypass is not good again

Author:  Bojcha [ Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.00

The Sound:
Should i test with Standalone or DSP?

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