Stereo Tool :: Intermod croaky voices problem!

As for the three sliders:

I didn't notice any audible difference (vibration-wise) between settings 1 and 2 (smoothing mids and constant tone protection), but setting 3 (steepness) - for sure the higher the setting, the worse the effect it created. I tried it in numerous combinantions - actually none of them gave satisfactory results and I think that even the original values or 0 sounded a bit better.

As a concluding remark - none of these affected the sound in a positive way as far as voice vibration is concerned. Not to my ears at least.

This leads me to a final conclusion that it might be that we hear different things. The vibrating distotions occur mostly in the "leaves", "feel" and "reach" phrases (so not in the ones you mentioned).

The sea throws rocks together but time, leaves us polished stones.
We can't fall any further if, we can't feel ordinary love.
And we cannot reach any higher, if we can't deal with ordinary love.

So it occurs when long "E" vowel is present in Bono's voice.

Maybe it's better to leave it just as is and to take into consideration these modifications that help reduce IMD in general (the other distortion I mentioned earlier and which, in turn, was indeed present in the phrases you mentioned).

P.S. I tested WITH comp clipper enabled. Because this is the way I usually use FM out.

Author:	hvz [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
I think I need to make the setting that controls the difference between 010, 011 and 011A available (at least temporarily) so people can really test it. Will do that tonight. Edit: Hm... This new setting (and also versions 010/011/011A) have 2 effects combined. Let's wait what you hear... Anyway: At setting "Method 0" (010), it works from 150-4500 Hz. At setting "Method 1" (011A), it works in the same frequency range, but less strong close to the edges (150-300 Hz, 3500-4500 Hz) At setting "Method 2" (011), it works even less strong in those areas. So, if for example the mids get better but the lowest part (150-300 Hz) gets worse, I might have to do something else. Version is ready-to-be-built, I'll build it tonight.

Author:	hvz [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5722&start=116 Could you please test this version and let me know what you hear? I've done some tests but I hear very little difference and I'm still not sure if I'm hearing the same thing that you hear. There are 3 sliders that control voice vibration protection, all under 'Advanced Clipper -> Distortion': 1. Smoothe mid frequencies (Default value: 4) 2. Rolloff (default: 0) 3. Peak detection steepness (0.28) 1. better protects spikes in the spectrum against distortion. The wider the area around the spike is (this is controlled by this slider, '0' is off), the better the protection works, but it also causes the sound to get softer and a bit less full. Normally the area is a block which stops suddenly. I'm not sure if that's optimal, that's why I added slider (2) which changes the shape. At 0 it's a block, at 1 it's a cosine window, and 2 it's a window with steeper slopes. This means that if you increase this slider, you might also have to increase (1) to compensate for that. Code: +-----+---+-----+ \| / \ \| \| / \ \| \| \| Setting 0 vs 1. 1 is narrower if you look at the top. If you increase slider (1) the area gets wider again. Finally, slider (3) controls how much easily a spike in the spectrum is detected as something that needs protection. Higher value = steeper 'drop' from where it sees a spike = more spikes detected. However if too many spikes are protected this also leads to a softer and thinner sound. This slider does not interact with sliders (1) and (2).

Author:	Slawomir B. [ Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
Hello Hans, I'm very sorry but I was and still am very busy with something else - will report tomorrow (100%).

Author:	hvz [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
Ok. Awaiting your reply Also, I have this new sample where I would like to know which channel you prefer: Left or right. http://www19.zippyshare.com/v/65070828/file.html This is a different change that I actually made to reduce CPU load... but I'm not sure if it's better or worse. (The word 'I' in 'I'm' is a clear improvement, but I don't know about the rest).

Author:	Slawomir B. [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
Quote: Ok. Awaiting your reply Also, I have this new sample where I would like to know which channel you prefer: Left or right. http://www19.zippyshare.com/v/65070828/file.html This is a different change that I actually made to reduce CPU load... but I'm not sure if it's better or worse. (The word 'I' in 'I'm' is a clear improvement, but I don't know about the rest). I did my best to check that - as for the above - at first I thought the left sounded worse, but then I switched the channels - it turned out that my left ear is simply more sensitive to that, so no - the difference between the two is not audible to me. As for the three sliders: I didn't notice any audible difference (vibration-wise) between settings 1 and 2 (smoothing mids and constant tone protection), but setting 3 (steepness) - for sure the higher the setting, the worse the effect it created. I tried it in numerous combinantions - actually none of them gave satisfactory results and I think that even the original values or 0 sounded a bit better. As a concluding remark - none of these affected the sound in a positive way as far as voice vibration is concerned. Not to my ears at least. This leads me to a final conclusion that it might be that we hear different things. The vibrating distotions occur mostly in the "leaves", "feel" and "reach" phrases (so not in the ones you mentioned). The sea throws rocks together but time, leaves us polished stones. We can't fall any further if, we can't feel ordinary love. And we cannot reach any higher, if we can't deal with ordinary love. So it occurs when long "E" vowel is present in Bono's voice. Maybe it's better to leave it just as is and to take into consideration these modifications that help reduce IMD in general (the other distortion I mentioned earlier and which, in turn, was indeed present in the phrases you mentioned). P.S. I tested WITH comp clipper enabled. Because this is the way I usually use FM out.

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Author:	hvz [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
Quote: I did my best to check that - as for the above - at first I thought the left sounded worse, but then I switched the channels - it turned out that my left ear is simply more sensitive to that, so no - the difference between the two is not audible to me. Ok, to me the right channel is slightly better, it's also (if I measure it) very very slightly louder (which is usually a good sign), and takes a bit less CPU load, so unless someone else reports the opposite I'm keeping the new (right channel) version there. Quote: As for the three sliders: I didn't notice any audible difference (vibration-wise) between settings 1 and 2 (smoothing mids and constant tone protection), but setting 3 (steepness) - for sure the higher the setting, the worse the effect it created. I tried it in numerous combinantions - actually none of them gave satisfactory results and I think that even the original values or 0 sounded a bit better. As a concluding remark - none of these affected the sound in a positive way as far as voice vibration is concerned. Not to my ears at least. This leads me to a final conclusion that it might be that we hear different things. The vibrating distotions occur mostly in the "leaves", "feel" and "reach" phrases (so not in the ones you mentioned). The sea throws rocks together but time, leaves us polished stones. We can't fall any further if, we can't feel ordinary love. And we cannot reach any higher, if we can't deal with ordinary love. So it occurs when long "E" vowel is present in Bono's voice. Maybe it's better to leave it just as is and to take into consideration these modifications that help reduce IMD in general (the other distortion I mentioned earlier and which, in turn, was indeed present in the phrases you mentioned). P.S. I tested WITH comp clipper enabled. Because this is the way I usually use FM out. Wow. We really must be hearing something different then. To me the 1st and 2nd slider do have a noticeable effect.. but they make the sound better, not worse! Which is basically what you are saying (last slider at 0 is roughly the same as turning this whole filter off). I did clearly hear a vibrating effect in one of the samples that someone posted with an old preset from Bojcha though. But in these samples, at least with the Unveil built-in preset, and especially with composite clipper, to me that effect is nearly unnoticeable. And I'm unable to hear if it gets better or worse from changing these settings. I can't tell if this new Method slider helps at all, so unless someone tells me today that it does I'll remove it again and restore what was there before. I do hear some (very mild) vibrations in "polished stones". Which is a different location than what you're talking about...

Author:	hvz [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
Just for info... here's the difference between the left and right channel in the last recording: http://www75.zippyshare.com/v/27916225/file.html Does this have anything to do with (does it resemble) the type of distortion that you're hearing?

Author:	Slawomir B. [ Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
There certainly is a vibrating part but is mostly overlapped by a wispering distortion from other IMD components (probably those, which you hear better). The old sample you're talking about was recorded by me with Bojcha's B-Town hvz mod, that was present in ST 7.50. This was the best I could do to make it audible to almost every person on Earth. To me this distortion there on this one track in particular was nearly as bad as "throw-it-immidietaly-away" sound, yet still I found some people that could not hear it. And I'm talking about a few rather trained people, such as musicians. Therefore I stated in the first post, that one may hear it, one not. But it is not only me who does hear it. BTW: B-town used old multiband. And I can already tell you that in the old multiband this distortion was far more noticable.

Author:	Slawomir B. [ Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Intermod croaky voices problem!
Sorry for answering after my previous post, but I just (after quite a few months) realized I've never said "thank you" for the effort you put in addressing this IMD problem, so... Thank you very much, Hans!

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