Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 5.02
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=2661		 Page 49 of 99
Author:  hvz [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Hi Hans,
Please forgive my ignorance(I guess you've been doing that for some time now!), but I need to know what part of the entire processing chain is pre-emphasis applied for FM tansmission. It's known that to circumvent the noise inherent in FM transmission, specially for high frequencies, the pre-emphasis is applied and the FM receiver on the other end attentuates the high frequencies by an equal amount.

So is the sound that's perceived by a receiver after de-emphasis, the same as that perceived by applying de-emphasis in the StereoTool and converting the output to, say an mp3, and listening to it? Reason I ask this is because the reverberation in bass that I have noticed, kinda disappears when pre-emphasis/de-emphasis is disabled. But then how the local FM stations bring out a bass that's solid even after the de-emphasis applied by the receiver?

The sporadic fluctuations in volume level or pumping is something that's not happening to the entire audio content, rather highs only. So not sure if this has something to do with the new filters that detect voice vibrations and apply corresponding attenuation to bass levels.

One last thing, the preset 'Europe/US FM Tansmitter HOT' - is it designed for some specific genre like trance, party, house or for that matter anything which has very fast tempo? On other genres, I get too much pumping(due to aggressive dynamics in pre-limiter). I like the preset for it's soothing effect and listening ease, but thats one glitch which plagues it at the moment when applied on general music content.
1. Sound on receiver after de-emphasis should be identical to that of Stereo Tool.
2. More highs means louder sound - so more difficult to increase further (using Loudness). So it's not strange that turning pre-emphasis on increases artifacts. If a bass is NOT solid in Stereo Tool but it is on FM stations, then there's something wrong in my processing :mrgreen:
3. Hm, highs only. Might have been solved in BETA510-42 then, I've changed some settings and removed some (almost all) of the new filters which appear to have damaged the sound instead of improving it... :oops:
4. FM Hot is SUPPOSED to cause pumping (that's why it's called 'Hot'), I've made it because I got some complaints from users who WANTED pumping and didn't manage to get it.
Author:  phoenix [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Surprisingly the effects are that of day and night compared, between beta 41 and beta 42 when heard on my Elite Pro Sound card. Nor just the highs are crisp and yet less harsh, even the bass (actually lows) content is higher. Had to bring down the lows slider by a whopping 3300 to get the same bass content from my preset as I tailored it for beta 41, and even then retains a warm feeling in the final output files.

Very transparent output this is. Thanks again. :D I think Hans is very close to his quest for 5.10.

Another major discovery, well sort of - Stereo Tool is the only VST Plugin in my arsenal that supports processing of 64 bit IEEE wav files. This is BIG plus allowing compatible hosts to interpolate even better prior final transcodings.
Author:  Bojcha [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Quote:
Hans..
Do you still hear voice distortion ?
Almost none in this 'Mina' track - haven't tested any others yet. Do you?
i still hear ..
but first, for FM to have 95% lows, i need to set "Then Rize to" = 75%, i gues that's because i use Composite limiter at 104%, but that's again 79% ... cunfused. Like this thing are better, plus using non-phase linear bandpass.. i can manage something.

Anyway .. is it possible this strict Clip (like Hard limit) with freq selection?
Author:  phoenix [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Dear oh dear!
Hans did you disable the 'punch' in the VST? Can someone please confirm if the punch in 'Loudness' section is still functional.
Not working for me. :(
Author:  Chris [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Excelent this Beta :) Clarity... ;))

Hans i have one request, one more slider at Pre-Emphasis, so we can add more than 50. Its great for Europe Radio Stations in case to adjust the highs. From 50 to 70 will be great.

Thanks :)
Author:  phoenix [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Excelent this Beta :) Clarity... ;))

Hans i have one request, one more slider at Pre-Emphasis, so we can add more than 50. Its great for Europe Radio Stations in case to adjust the highs. From 50 to 70 will be great.

Thanks :)
Hello Chris, the good news is that you can actually tailor the pre-emphasis time using the spike protection parameter by specifying the time in microseconds in the .sts file.
Example:
[Lossy compression output optimization]
Enabled=1
Spike Protation pre-emphasis time=60

That should get your job done.
Author:  Chris [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Thanks you Phoenix... i will try it. :)
Author:  hvz [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Hans i have one request, one more slider at Pre-Emphasis, so we can add more than 50. Its great for Europe Radio Stations in case to adjust the highs. From 50 to 70 will be great.
Hi Chris,

Can you explain what the purpose of this would be? For FM transmitters, you can select 50 or 75 us - and those settings are needed because receivers perform the matching de-emphasis.

For web radio (or anything that's being encoded to lossy formats like MP3), there's a slider to add _A BIT_ of pre-emphasis to protect against clipping when encoding (or decoding). 15-20 usually suffices to get the maximum effect (setting it higher has little benefits).

Instead, setting the pre-emphasis higher hurts the quality of the highs.


So what are you trying to do?
Author:  michi95 [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
I may be wrong, but I remember (it seems to me as if) Hans wrote that the lossy compression output optimization pre-emphasis (and de-emphasis) settings are ignored if you enable FM processing (the pre-emphasis in this section) !?

Hans ?
Or does it work the way phoenix has described it ?


@ All

So all the improvements you are talking about in latest beta versions is based on the usage of loudness ?
So there are only changes for the loudness processing or are there any other changes ?
(I ask, because I do not broadcast and do not use loudness).
Or is there any influence of these new sliders to the Final Limiter, too ?
(Sorry, for this stupid question, but I have not the time to read any detail of this endless topic and looking at the GUI of Limiting and Loudness section it seems as if the new options belong to Final Limiter !?)

Thank you in advance !
Author:  Chris [ Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Quote:
Hans i have one request, one more slider at Pre-Emphasis, so we can add more than 50. Its great for Europe Radio Stations in case to adjust the highs. From 50 to 70 will be great.
Hi Chris,

Can you explain what the purpose of this would be? For FM transmitters, you can select 50 or 75 us - and those settings are needed because receivers perform the matching de-emphasis.

For web radio (or anything that's being encoded to lossy formats like MP3), there's a slider to add _A BIT_ of pre-emphasis to protect against clipping when encoding (or decoding). 15-20 usually suffices to get the maximum effect (setting it higher has little benefits).

Instead, setting the pre-emphasis higher hurts the quality of the highs.


So what are you trying to do?

On mbl4 we could adjust the pre-emphasis. This is what i want to do (FM only). We can adjust pre-emphasis on 56-58 to get more highs without hurting...
Phoenix told me solution, but i am not sure is the one i need. is it?
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