Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=7889		 Page 33 of 43
Author:  Daniel1988 [ Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
[quote="livewireaus"]Beta 036 DSP version is still crashing in Winamp and SAM Broadcaster -:

Here the same problem
Author:  JesseG [ Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
bug: Tooltip for "Multiband (digital mode) > Density" shows text from "Multiband (digital mode) > Aggressiveness (hot)"
Author:  Bojcha [ Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
Just realized that actualy "AGC Drive" works wrong.
It should just add input and in same time remove by same amount after AGC. Currently it just adds input.
Author:  JesseG [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
I don't think we want a control that adds gain to the input but changes the output target (which will then have to be re-adjusted every time the input gain control thing is changed), do we? If not, then it needs to be renamed?
Author:  cornyman [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
Quote:
Just realized that actualy "AGC Drive" works wrong.
It should just add input and in same time remove by same amount after AGC. Currently it just adds input.
Noticed the same, but as a non- professional thought I had been wrong so far in how it is supposed to work. Strange.
Author:  weskeene [ Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
I'm going to disagree with everyone else and say I think it's implemented properly today.

I don't even mind having two controls that do exactly the same thing (AGC Drive and Pre-amp), because I think when users load presets, it should stop affecting pre-amp and post-proc levels.

Just my .02.
Author:  JesseG [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
Quote:
I'm going to disagree with everyone else and say I think it's implemented properly today.
I agreed with you in advance. ;)
Quote:
I don't even mind having two controls that do exactly the same thing (AGC Drive and Pre-amp), because I think when users load presets, it should stop affecting pre-amp and post-proc levels.
Actually they don't work the same way. Among other things, the AGC drive doesn't effect the gates.

I like the idea of the post-amp not changing when loading a preset (perhaps an option), but with the pre-amp I couldn't care less either way because almost none of the presets are calibrated for a standard input loudness like EBU's 0LU. Every time a different preset is loaded, the pre-amp needs to be adjusted... with the exception of presets that don't use AGC gates, use max AGC ratio, use a large enough range, and have a low enough target output to work properly with the input. (although I've made a few presets that only use the AGC for accidental over-loudness into the multiband, so turning the input up past 0LU would be incorrect, and who's to know if it's not calibrated?!?)

If all of the presets were went through, and had the AGC Drive and Gate/s changed so they work how they should (according to their creators) with a 0LU input, then it's obvious that the presets shouldn't change the pre-amp gain. But as it stands now, the pre-amp gain needs to be changed every time a preset is loaded.
Author:  weskeene [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
Quote:
Actually they don't work the same way. Among other things, the AGC drive doesn't effect the gates.

I like the idea of the post-amp not changing when loading a preset (perhaps an option), but with the pre-amp I couldn't care less either way because almost none of the presets are calibrated for a standard input loudness like EBU's 0LU. Every time a different preset is loaded, the pre-amp needs to be adjusted... with the exception of presets that don't use AGC gates, use max AGC ratio, use a large enough range, and have a low enough target output to work properly with the input. (although I've made a few presets that only use the AGC for accidental over-loudness into the multiband, so turning the input up past 0LU would be incorrect, and who's to know if it's not calibrated?!?)

If all of the presets were went through, and had the AGC Drive and Gate/s changed so they work how they should (according to their creators) with a 0LU input, then it's obvious that the presets shouldn't change the pre-amp gain. But as it stands now, the pre-amp gain needs to be changed every time a preset is loaded.
TL;DR

Anyhow, the presets should leave your pre-amp and post-proc settings alone and I stand by that. If presets are or are not calibrated to anything, it's irrelevant. Input levels should not be calibrated to anything but absolute peak with reference to how much louder the console can provide can audio. Assuming a typical setup, -12dB peaks should suffice.

Of course, users will need to adjust the AGC drive slightly when they load a new preset, based on the density of the audio they happen to broadcast. The the input calibration procedure is standard on all processors, and is completely unrelated to the preset being loaded. I think StereoTool should follow this model, as well.

EDIT: "TL;DR" probably read as rude. Sorry if it does, Jesse. It was my very lame attempt at a joke, which I think failed.

One other note: I was assuming a peak normalized library. Obviously some people use more elaborate normalization schemes. In those cases -12 will be way too hot for a typical peak input.
Author:  Bojcha [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
Quote:
Quote:
I'm going to disagree with everyone else and say I think it's implemented properly today.
I agreed with you in advance. ;)
If that's true then "Maximum Gain" (wich is basicly AGC drive) in Omnia.9 is working wrong.
Author:  weskeene [ Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 8.01 BETA
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm going to disagree with everyone else and say I think it's implemented properly today.
I agreed with you in advance. ;)
If that's true then "Maximum Gain" (wich is basicly AGC drive) in Omnia.9 is working wrong.

I wouldn't expect Maximum Gain and Drive to do the same thing. In processors I have seen that employ a Drive control, it is simply an amplifier immediately before that processing stage. Or at least that is how it appears to function in processors I have dealt with.
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