Two more spammers needed to complete millenium forum 'members'...
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| Stereo Tool 6.00 https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=2811 |
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| Author: | Bojcha [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
Bass Boost: I am not using "preserve louder peeks". When i turn this off and play 40Hz sinetone, bass "rings" It's better with "preserve louder peeks" ON but it's still there, Any chance to fix this? It's like Internal Clipping in This filter. Meters are much higher then in 4096 mode. edit: Seem when "Then dropping to no boost" is larger then 170Hz this starts to occure much more. Especially when MB is in 'limit' mode. Test settings - Boost from 100-200Hz. Overall quality is great. EQ is much better. |
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| Author: | Chris [ Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
Its very good work Hans.... but i noticed that from 1024 to 2048 bass freq 90 and 170 are diff. You have more Kick on 2048 than 1024 but on 1024 you have more clear mid vocals and highs with same steppness 50% |
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| Author: | hvz [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
BETA601-021: No interesting changes, just 2 minor things: - Reduced CPU load at latencies 512 and 1024 (audio window shaping now optimized for lower CPU usage) - For high input sample rates, I'm now removing very high frequencies that cause issues with Hard Limit (that's 21 kHz for latency 4096, 20 kHz for 2048, 19 kHz for 1024 and 18 kHz for 512 - assuming a multiple of 44.1 kHz as input sample rate; for 48 kHz the filter frequencies are 48/44.1 times higher) - only if Hard Limit is enabled. Should reduce the occurrence of 'red output bars' (only if there were such high frequencies in the input in the first place). If you're already filtering out high frequencies this has no effect. Winamp DSP plugin: http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_ ... 01-021.exe Stand alone version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 01-021.exe VST version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 01-021.dll VST version (No SSE2): http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 01-021.dll Command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 01-021.exe Linux command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA601-021 [not available] Linux GUI version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA601-021 [not available] What remains for 6.01: - Multiband: Adjust band 3 (and others?) 'soft limit' behavior at very low latencies. Maybe: Also check clipping (also for band 3, might be re-enabled!). DONE! - 1 hour - Multiband: Adjust extreme EQ settings before processing to avoid issues caused by steepness. - 1 hour - Multiband: Add 'Enable' button for steepness. 1 hour - Performance: Multiband steepness: Moving UP can be done inside current loop, no separate loop needed. Maybe down too. Currently Multiband is FAR more expensive than before. - DONE, solved in a different way. - 1 day - MAYBE: Make Steepness smarter. That would much better preserve the audio, especially at very low latencies! How: Instead of setting all the levels at AT MOST the level of neighboring bands + a bit, combine adjacent bands, determine total output level, and then fix it such that this combined output level is approached more. (So one very low, one very high --> one a bit less low, one a bit less high instead of both low). - Fix NOISE GATE behavior in VST plugin - Fix 'red output bar' issue. DONE - 1 day? - Fix Highpass filter for higher input frequencies. - Dynamic audio processing window: I've tested this at latency 512, and there it helps. But I don't have a clue what the effect is on higher latencies. They might also sound better, but they could just as well sound worse. - 2 hours. Result: 512 and 1024 got better, 2048 and 4096 got worse. So only turned on for the first two. - Dynamic audio processing window: CPU load is probably a lot higher (haven't measured it yet) due to the dynamic adjustment of the behavior. The dynamic code was originally intended to be executed only once when a latency was selected, and it's not optimized at all. Fixed, CPU load reduced, and for latency 2048 and 4096 there's no difference. - Optimize, 1 day - Reduce downsampling frequency because currently very high frequencies (21-22 kHz @ 176.4 kHz input sampling rate) in the input can cause spikes even if Hard Limit is used. DONE - 1 hour - Vibrations caused by Very deep bass distortion protection at latency 1024. Also (but far less noticeable) in higher latency modes. No issue at latency 512 because there it's turned off. - Fixed, turned it on for latency 512, and turned other bass filter OFF for 512 because it caused distortion. - Check/fix Bass Boost ringing reported by Bojcha for higher 'upto' frequencies. REDUCED it a bit, hope that suffices... Less steep filtering (ie. bigger difference between first 2 frequencies) helps. - Attempt to set GAUSS back to 0 - gives MUCH better processing of most filters (no high frequency noise). BUT: Loudness effect in Bjork - It's Oh So Quiet - can that be resolved in another way? BUSY, 1 day? - Frequencies between 60 and 75 Hz are not handled properly yet, and can still cause vibration effects at soft high frequencies in latency 512 mode. (But FAR less than in version 6.00). Fixing this will probably increase artifacts for bass in this frequency range. - Performance: Multiband: Remove sqrt(sqrt(cos())), pow(x, .75) etc. - too expensive, replace by lookup table. 2 hours - And I need to check how much the performance is impacted by the latency improvements, in the case where no upsampling and downsampling is needed. This seems to be impacted way more than I expected (could also be Multiband steepness --> Not anymore, fixed). ??? - Chris: "I still hear diff on Bass and kick between Beta 16 vs Beta 08 on 2048 latency. I hear more bass and kick on Beta 08. Pls check!" Questions: * Multiband: Question: Is Steepness behavior ok? * Loudness: QUESTION: The changed Punch behavior, is that good or bad? Should I attempt to let Punch behave as it did in the past as much as possible, or not? Check: Check difference in behavior between 44.1 and 48 kHz input for multiband! This could potentially result in really big differences. At latency 512, Steepness can now be set a bit higher than before because there are far less artifacts. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
Bojcha: Bass boost ringing: Will check. Edit: Ok. I've heard it now, only at latency 512 apparently... More tomorrow! Quote: Its very good work Hans.... but i noticed that from 1024 to 2048 bass freq 90 and 170 are diff. You have more Kick on 2048 than 1024 but on 1024 you have more clear mid vocals and highs with same steppness 50%
'steepness' behaves differently at different latency settings. Do you notice the same when you disable 'Steepness artifact protection'?
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| Author: | Brian [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
Quote: Bass Boost:
The thing is, you aren't boosting "from 100-200Hz". You are really boosting at max rate from 0 to 100Hz, then decreasing the boost from 100% to 0% of your selected boost amount from 100Hz to 200Hz. Assuming a linear drop, that would mean at 150Hz, you'd be boosting 50%.I am not using "preserve louder peeks". When i turn this off and play 40Hz sinetone, bass "rings" It's better with "preserve louder peeks" ON but it's still there, Any chance to fix this? It's like Internal Clipping in This filter. Meters are much higher then in 4096 mode. edit: Seem when "Then dropping to no boost" is larger then 170Hz this starts to occure much more. Especially when MB is in 'limit' mode. Test settings - Boost from 100-200Hz. This is why your Addiction V11 was too boomy for my liking. In that, you have a full boost strength from 0 to 50Hz, then drop to no boost at 270Hz. The sound is still getting a fair amount of boost once you pass 180Hz. 100 - (130 / 220 * 100) ~= 40.91% boost @ 180Hz. 100 - (150 / 220 * 100) ~= 31.82% boost @ 200Hz. Probably if you changed the Maximum Boost to be from 0 up to 0 and let it naturally decay all the way out to 270, then give the deep bass the extra boost over in the Loudness section, it will sound better. The same calculations as above: 100 - (180 / 270 * 100) ~= 33.33% boost @ 180Hz. 100 - (200 / 270 * 100) ~= 25.93% boost @ 200Hz. If you go by my settings in the preset that I made that cuts off the boost at 200Hz (the "standard" definition of where "bass" ends): (100 - (180 / 200 * 100)) * 0.80 = 8% boost @ 180Hz I guess this would also depend on the type of speakers you have as to what would be "better". I'm sending to 2x40W 3-inch drivers, so I don't really want much boosting past about 150Hz. If I had 2x50W 4-inch drivers, then sure, I'd let a stronger 150-300 signal go to them, as they should be able to reproduce that area of the sound better than the smaller speakers would. |
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| Author: | phoenix [ Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
Two more spammers needed to complete millenium forum 'members'...
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| Author: | Bojcha [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
"deep bass boost" disabled at 512 ? |
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| Author: | hvz [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
Quote: "deep bass boost" disabled at 512 ?
Yes, because it gave too many artifacts. Actually I've just turned the whole Improved Bass Distortion Protection Filter off at this latency.I could replace it by something similar to 'Bass Boost', if it's really needed here - the current filter is much simpler, which suffices at higher latencies, but not at latency 512. New build with 3 changes coming up: - Fixed vibrations caused by Very deep bass distortion protection at latency 1024. Also (but far less noticeable) in higher latency modes. Now also enabled for latency 512. - Turned Improved Bass Distortion Protection filter OFF for 512 because it caused distortion. - Reduced Bass Boost ringing reported by Bojcha a bit, completely removing it doesn't seem possible. Hope this suffices... Less steep filtering (ie. bigger difference between first 2 frequencies) helps. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
BETA601-022: - Fixed vibrations caused by Very deep bass distortion protection at latency 1024. Also (but far less noticeable) in higher latency modes. Now also enabled for latency 512. - Turned Improved Bass Distortion Protection filter OFF for 512 because it caused distortion. - Reduced Bass Boost ringing reported by Bojcha a bit, completely removing it doesn't seem possible. Hope this suffices... Less steep filtering (ie. bigger difference between first 2 frequencies) helps. Winamp DSP plugin: http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_ ... 01-022.exe Stand alone version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 01-022.exe VST version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 01-022.dll VST version (No SSE2): http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 01-022.dll Command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 01-022.exe Linux command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA601-022 [not available] Linux GUI version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA601-022 [not available] What remains for 6.01: - Multiband: Adjust band 3 (and others?) 'soft limit' behavior at very low latencies. Maybe: Also check clipping (also for band 3, might be re-enabled!). DONE! - 1 hour - Multiband: Adjust extreme EQ settings before processing to avoid issues caused by steepness. - 1 hour - Multiband: Add 'Enable' button for steepness. 1 hour - Performance: Multiband steepness: Moving UP can be done inside current loop, no separate loop needed. Maybe down too. Currently Multiband is FAR more expensive than before. - DONE, solved in a different way. - 1 day - MAYBE: Make Steepness smarter. That would much better preserve the audio, especially at very low latencies! How: Instead of setting all the levels at AT MOST the level of neighboring bands + a bit, combine adjacent bands, determine total output level, and then fix it such that this combined output level is approached more. (So one very low, one very high --> one a bit less low, one a bit less high instead of both low). - Fix NOISE GATE behavior in VST plugin - Fix 'red output bar' issue. DONE - 1 day? - Fix Highpass filter for higher input frequencies. - Dynamic audio processing window: I've tested this at latency 512, and there it helps. But I don't have a clue what the effect is on higher latencies. They might also sound better, but they could just as well sound worse. - 2 hours. Result: 512 and 1024 got better, 2048 and 4096 got worse. So only turned on for the first two. - Dynamic audio processing window: CPU load is probably a lot higher (haven't measured it yet) due to the dynamic adjustment of the behavior. The dynamic code was originally intended to be executed only once when a latency was selected, and it's not optimized at all. Fixed, CPU load reduced, and for latency 2048 and 4096 there's no difference. - Optimize, 1 day - Reduce downsampling frequency because currently very high frequencies (21-22 kHz @ 176.4 kHz input sampling rate) in the input can cause spikes even if Hard Limit is used. DONE - 1 hour - Vibrations caused by Very deep bass distortion protection at latency 1024. Also (but far less noticeable) in higher latency modes. No issue at latency 512 because there it's turned off. - Fixed, turned it on for latency 512, and turned other bass filter OFF for 512 because it caused distortion. - Check difference in behavior between 44.1 and 48 kHz input for multiband! This could potentially result in really big differences. - No - Performance: Multiband: Remove sqrt(sqrt(cos())), pow(x, .75) etc. - too expensive, replace by lookup table. - NOT FOR NOW, would increase memory usage and hence risk more page faults, so it's not sure that this would improve the performance. - 2 hours - Performance: Move chain variables to a single Struct DONE - 1 hour - Latency: Attempt to reduce Composite Limiter sampling latency - there is no audio anywhere near the filter frequency, so a much shorter delay might still work very well - DONE, composite limiter latency is now 0.9 ms at latencies 512 and 1024 (~1.7-2 ms at higher latencies)! It can be reduced a step further (to 0.5 ms) if I allow a bit more distortion - don't know if that's useful. - Check/fix Bass Boost ringing reported by Bojcha for higher 'upto' frequencies. REDUCED it a bit, hope that suffices... Less steep filtering (ie. bigger difference between first 2 frequencies) helps. - Attempt to set GAUSS back to 0 - gives MUCH better processing of most filters (no high frequency noise). BUT: Loudness effect in Bjork - It's Oh So Quiet - can that be resolved in another way? BUSY, 1 day? - Frequencies between 60 and 75 Hz are not handled properly yet, and can still cause vibration effects at soft high frequencies in latency 512 mode. (But FAR less than in version 6.00). Fixing this will probably increase artifacts for bass in this frequency range. - And I need to check how much the performance is impacted by the latency improvements, in the case where no upsampling and downsampling is needed. This seems to be impacted way more than I expected (could also be Multiband steepness --> Not anymore, fixed). Ah, got part of it: 1% is steepness. Which leaves about 3% to be explained. Het is NIET de FM Hard Limit - ook al bereken ik daar nu meer van. Wellicht chain2 calls? - Bojcha: "There is strange "tone" at LEFT channel (tested ST dsp), caused by Bass Boost, but not always!" - Chris: "I still hear diff on Bass and kick between Beta 16 vs Beta 08 on 2048 latency. I hear more bass and kick on Beta 08. Pls check!" Questions: * Multiband: Question: Is Steepness behavior ok? * Loudness: QUESTION: The changed Punch behavior, is that good or bad? Should I attempt to let Punch behave as it did in the past as much as possible, or not? At latency 512, Steepness can now be set a bit higher than before because there are far less artifacts. |
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| Author: | camclone [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.00 |
Wow! I am using the latest BETA, since 6.00 ...using the latest BETA i can see more clear mid frequencies using my presets! I LIKE IT !! |
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