Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 7.72
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=6149		 Page 4 of 8
Author:  ClaveFremen [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
Quote:
Stereo Tool operates in bursts so if your CPU isn't very fast it will - for every 42 ms of audio (at default settings) - take a while.
The CPU is a Intel Core i5-3330 at 3GHz and with version 7.60, which have a much higher CPU utilization, the problem it's not present.

The sound card is an ESI Juli@.

Clicks seems randomic, not periodic.

I would guess it's related to the CPU load at the moment a new burst ends/starts.
Quote:
Does lowering the Latency in ST help as well?
Yes but it's different for 7.70 and 7.72.

In 7.70, lowering to 1024 mitigates the problem and even better at 512 samples the problem it's rare but still present.

It's really weird at 2048 samples, in the right channel sound is completely distorted... :shock:

In 7.72 things goes better even using 1024 samples but 2048 still result in distorted sound on the right channel.

I've also noted another thing... clicks are present randomly at left or right channel.
Author:  Chibisteven [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
Quote:
Quote:
Stereo Tool operates in bursts so if your CPU isn't very fast it will - for every 42 ms of audio (at default settings) - take a while.
The CPU is a Intel Core i5-3330 at 3GHz and with version 7.60, which have a much higher CPU utilization, the problem it's not present.

The sound card is an ESI Juli@.

Clicks seems randomic, not periodic.

I would guess it's related to the CPU load at the moment a new burst ends/starts.
Quote:
Does lowering the Latency in ST help as well?
Yes but it's different for 7.70 and 7.72.

In 7.70, lowering to 1024 mitigates the problem and even better at 512 samples the problem it's rare but still present.

It's really weird at 2048 samples, in the right channel sound is completely distorted... :shock:

In 7.72 things goes better even using 1024 samples but 2048 still result in distorted sound on the right channel.

I've also noted another thing... clicks are present randomly at left or right channel.
I experienced something similar like that except I never monkeyed with the CPU load (max.) and kept the sample size at the highest amount allowed and my CPU is very weak one in comparison to what you have. I don't use very much compression (even though my CPU can happily handle a lot more) and like to stay away from very aggressive forms (can also handle that) of it to the max a transmission medium allows. The only thing that takes too much CPU where it stutters is using the composite clipper. Still the load is about 75-98%. The newer version saw a drop to 40-80%.

In 7.70, never occurred.
In 7.72, occurred but unable to reproduce it until now.

EDIT: Well no wonder why I wasn't able to reproduce it. I probably caused the resampler plug-in to reset it's settings back 44,100 Hz and once I set it back 192,000 Hz it came back and didn't realize I might of accidently did this. I just thought of checking everything over just now, now that somebody else mentioned something similar. Very embarrassing. :oops:
Author:  DJC [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
Hi,

I'm seeing the same things in Foobar (both window size and clicks). CPU is i5 2500K (4 cores, 3.3 mhz).
Author:  DJ-DOGGY [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
To all that see clicks :

Try to disable some options and filters and see if clicks disappear. Also disable some other plugins in foobar (if you have such).

I just try with 7.71 VST and see NO clicks . Will try with 7.72 to see.
Edit : With 7.72 i still don`t see something to worry about.
Author:  hvz [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
Ok I'm trying to make sense out of this so I'm browsing back to previous posts to get the details.

@ClaveFremen: You're reporting completely distorted sound at latency 2048 in version 7.70. Version 7.70 has been available for months and you're the first to report this, so whatever you're seeing doesn't seem to happen to a lot of people. You are also saying that the problem disappears if you increase the buffer size in Foobar, which would seem to indicate that it's a buffering problem - but if the right channel is completely distorted it doesn't seem to match that (depending on what you mean by distorted - is it too loud, or a complete mess of different chunks of audio, or noise, or something else?). Can you try if that also disappears if you increase the buffer size? If not, can you make a recording of the distortion?

@Chibisteven: This is still with that very long chain of filters, right?

All of you: Are you both using Foobar with a VST wrapper? @ClaveFremen, Chibisteven only sees a problem with 192 kHz sample rate, what sample rate are you using?
Author:  hvz [ Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
I've just installed Foobar + VST Adapter, and running the latest ST shows no problems, except indeed when I set the latency to 50 ms. Then anything I do on the system causes brief drops.

192 kHz sample rate does it all the time, but that's because the CPU load on my laptop (on battery) is getting close to the maximum.

Just to check: If you are talking about CPU load, are you checking the meter inside Stereo Tool or another tool? Only the value inside ST is useful to determine if there's a problem. It's under Configuration -> CPU & Latency.

I'm not hearing any distortion on any channel, and no clicks (except small drops when the CPU load meter in Stereo Tool exceeds 90%).


Edit: I see that Foobar crashes when I open and close the VST GUI and then close Foobar. It appears to be an internal Foobar error though - it's definitely not something that's coming out of Stereo Tool... (It complains that some object already exists, a bug coming from ST would look very different, and when it happens ST has already been unloaded). Despite that, can you try if you also hear clicks if you never open the GUI?
Author:  Chibisteven [ Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
Quote:
Ok I'm trying to make sense out of this so I'm browsing back to previous posts to get the details.
@Chibisteven: This is still with that very long chain of filters, right?
Yes and no.

Tests using just the Resampler (SoX) seems input dependent.

Without the long chain and just the resampler:
On 44.1 KHz if a different rate is file rate is used it disappears. If two Resamplers (SoX) are used it disappears to change the rate feed to one before stereo tool. It also disappears if chain after stereo tool.

8000 = working
11025 = working
16000 = working
22050 = working
24000 = working
32000 = working
44100 = working
48000 = working
64000 = clicking
88200 = working
96000 = clicking
176400 = clicking
192000 = clicking


With the long chain and if chained after Stereo Tool it disappears.

I've found George VST Wrapper to be more stable when running Stereo Tool in the past than the VST Adapter.

Stereo Tool settings having no effect.

Seems isolated to that one plug-in when used with Stereo Tool (7.72) otherwise it doesn't produce any clicking and works perfectly with the plug-in on 7.60, the rest of the chain caused no problems.

Dynamic DSP (this can set to do whatever the user wishes based on tags in a file) only adds two or three plug-ins depending on file tags and the rest of the chain is pass through on stereo audio, turning on and off those outside of the plug-in. Adds no extra DSPs using DTS *5.1, 6.1, 7.1*, stereo, 3-channel stereo or mono audio. Adds chains for Dolby Digital (1 dsp), Quadrophonic input (2 or 3 depending on whether or not phase shifting will be needed), open for additional chains if material has downmix instructions for this. It was drop out tested on track changes and adjusted until there was none, 2 different files (2 seconds with silence) are called up by insertion into any playlist when dynamic dsp needs to change it's own changes (4 seconds total). The matrix mixer before this catches any 6.1 or 7.1 and fixes things accordingly to work around Pro-Optimizer's plug-in only handling 5.1.

The clicking didn't occur when playing Surround material @ anything other than 44.1 KHz and once again the resampler causes it.
Author:  hvz [ Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
I'm not sure if I understand correctly what you're saying.
Quote:
Quote:
Ok I'm trying to make sense out of this so I'm browsing back to previous posts to get the details.
@Chibisteven: This is still with that very long chain of filters, right?
Yes and no.

Tests using just the Resampler (SoX) seems input dependent.

Without the long chain and just the resampler:
On 44.1 KHz if a different rate is file rate is used it disappears. If two Resamplers (SoX) are used it disappears to change the rate feed to one before stereo tool. It also disappears if chain after stereo tool.

Both input and
8000 = working
11025 = working
16000 = working
22050 = working
24000 = working
32000 = working
44100 = working
48000 = working
64000 = clicking
88200 = working
96000 = clicking
176400 = clicking
192000 = clicking
Does this mean that with resampler, the input sample rate of the resampler determines whether there is clicking or not?

Since Stereo Tool will only receive the resampled audio, it is completely unaware of the original input sample rate, so that cannot affect what happens in Stereo Tool (except that the number of samples going into Stereo Tool might also be different when the input sample rate is different - but it will also be different for each different VST host so it should be causing problems in many others). The only other thing that could have any effect is memory alignment. And I just checked that and it doesn't affect anything (and if it did, it would also go wrong in lots of VST hosts).
Author:  Chibisteven [ Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
Quote:
I'm not sure if I understand correctly what you're saying.
Quote:
Quote:
Ok I'm trying to make sense out of this so I'm browsing back to previous posts to get the details.
@Chibisteven: This is still with that very long chain of filters, right?
Yes and no.

Tests using just the Resampler (SoX) seems input dependent.

Without the long chain and just the resampler:
On 44.1 KHz if a different rate is file rate is used it disappears. If two Resamplers (SoX) are used it disappears to change the rate feed to one before stereo tool. It also disappears if chain after stereo tool.

Both input and
8000 = working
11025 = working
16000 = working
22050 = working
24000 = working
32000 = working
44100 = working
48000 = working
64000 = clicking
88200 = working
96000 = clicking
176400 = clicking
192000 = clicking
Does this mean that with resampler, the input sample rate of the resampler determines whether there is clicking or not?

Since Stereo Tool will only receive the resampled audio, it is completely unaware of the original input sample rate, so that cannot affect what happens in Stereo Tool (except that the number of samples going into Stereo Tool might also be different when the input sample rate is different - but it will also be different for each different VST host so it should be causing problems in many others). The only other thing that could have any effect is memory alignment. And I just checked that and it doesn't affect anything (and if it did, it would also go wrong in lots of VST hosts).
The input rate does determine it and the rate the resampler is set at determines if it occurs.

If the input rate is 44.1 KHz and the output rate is 192 KHz, Stereo Tool produces clicking but if the input rate is anything other then it produces no clicking. What's super weird is that does not happen at all with Stereo Tool 7.60 at all. This resampler plugin on it's own produces no clicking. It's bit strange that the the two of them together produce clicking in certain cases but when they're separate do not produce any.

I discovered something new just now: apparently adjust the phase response slider to either 0% or 50% stops the clicking. I've this set to default at 25%. This determines the amount of pre-echo and post echo and ringing.

Another new thing: Setting it to 176400 Hz affects 48 KHz audio. It's like if the audio is not some kind of multiple at certain point it's affected.

I'm surprised I didn't think of checking it earlier.

Update: After looking at some documents those was supposed to at 50% linear when upsampling. But it may have revealed a bug with Stereo Tool on how it handles peaks or out of human range ringing artifacts.
Author:  DJC [ Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
To one of your questions: Foobar no longer needs a wrapper, it has native support, but is a little tricky: you have to load the vst through preferences - components - vst plugins, restart Foobar, and then look for it under Dsp. So no wrapper here
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