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| Intermod croaky voices problem! https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=5734 |
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| Author: | hvz [ Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Well that shouldn't be necessary. And the sound is very different anyway because it's a completely different processor. Anyway, here are 2 samples from Bojcha: http://www28.zippyshare.com/v/87827819/file.html Please compare this with the output of Bojcha's Unveil preset... Would be nice if you could rank these (worst, mid, best). |
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| Author: | Slawomir B. [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Second one is which I utterly hate and is worse than this produced by Unveil  In fact, it has not only vibration but also other distortion on top of that. EDIT: In the first sample on the other hand, intermod distortion seems significantly lower in "depth" (than in second one), but higher in frequency. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
So you would say: BEST: 1st MID: ST UNVEIL WORST: 2nd Oddly if I have to sort them I would say (checked both on good headphones, bad headphones and laptop speakers, results are always the same): BEST: ST UNVEIL MID: 2nd WORST: 1st To me the vibrations are most audible in the 1st sample of this flac file.... Bojcha, how would you sort them? |
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| Author: | Slawomir B. [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Actually it would be quality wise: Best: Unveil Mid: 1st Worst: 2nd Strictly vibration wise: Best: 1st Mid: Unveil Worst: 2nd Thank you very much for your attention regarding this matter! I really appreciate that! In Unveil the vibration is the only bad thing I hear. It's very clean apart from that. Those two had something in them, that made them sound plain dirty. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Slawomir: Can you retry this on laptop speakers? I wonder if you find the same order. Because on my laptop speakers I'm almost unable to hear any vibrations in ST, but I clearly hear them in both others. And I sorted them ordered by amount of vibration - so I'm using the exact opposite order that you used - to me 1st vibrates the most... lol.  *** AHA *** In the 1st sample to me the drops are deeper but shorter. In ST they are much more extended in time. Is that what you hear? If so, what happens if you set the Sloppy slider (first slider in ABDP area) to the maximum? Does it get better or worse? I can already tell you that to me it gets much worse. But you might think the opposite... |
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| Author: | Slawomir B. [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Quote: Slawomir: Can you retry this on laptop speakers? I wonder if you find the same order. Because on my laptop speakers I'm almost unable to hear any vibrations in ST, but I clearly hear them in both others.
In the first sample I don't hear the vibration to be deeper in comparison with the second or the Unveil. Don't know what you mean by "extended in time" - I hear them like if they were of lower frequency (shorter intervals). In the second one I hear it like if the intervals of the vibrations were longer and much deeper (especially in the word" feel"). Additionally there is some HF swishing on top of that.And I sorted them ordered by amount of vibration - so I'm using the exact opposite order that you used - to me 1st vibrates the most... lol. *** AHA *** In the 1st sample to me the drops are deeper but shorter. In ST they are much more extended in time. Is that what you hear? If so, what happens if you set the Sloppy slider (first slider in ABDP area) to the maximum? Does it get better or worse? I can already tell you that to me it gets much worse. But you might think the opposite... Stock Unveil produces no such other distortion - only vibrations. When I push sloppy follow-up to the max - I get also HF swishing on top of that. And vibrations don't go away at all ofcourse (perceived quality gets worse). And yes - due to this HF swishing - this is the most prominent distortion I hear on my laptop speakers. Much harder to hear those vibrations (but I do hear them). I am really looking forward to hear what Bojcha says. EDIT: swishing is probably not the best word for that what I hear in the HF (I don't know how to call it), it's distorted anyway. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Interesting. If the effect is almost inaudible on laptop speakers, it must mean that only the lowest freqs are affected. I would guess that it's only the base frequency of the voice. Which might very well be the case: something special happens in ABDP around 550-800 Hz. But... I tried to change that today and the output was nearly identical. Can you confirm that the problem is in the lowest freqs only? (For my ears, that doesn't seem to be the case: if I lpf the output I hear no distortion anymore). About deepness etc: in sample 1 the gaps are - to my ears - deeper and shorter than in ST. I might be wrong about the deeper part; the slopes are steeper which might make them sound deeper - to my ears... |
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| Author: | Slawomir B. [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Quote: About deepness etc: in sample 1 the gaps are - to my ears - deeper and shorter than in ST. I might be wrong about the deeper part; the slopes are steeper which might make them sound deeper - to my ears...
The higher the freq, the steeper the slopes, that makes sense. But I don't think they're deeper. Mabe I'll try to measure it similar way I did last time. It is less audible on laptop speakers - that's for sure. But you know... In my opinion they're useless as a monitoring tool actually. I avoid listening to anything through them if possible. Today I'll definitely try to mess around with lowpass and highpass with those IMD samples and tell you the result (later in the evening). Ha! And with this lowest freq only might not be that simple - it's more bound to psychoacoustics, where lows and highs make up a certain voice timbre. And what I hear is that both mid and higher freq are vibrating (spectrum-wise), I didn't measure it though. This "main frequency" you were talking about in strictly acoustic terms is called "fundamental". BUT You may obtain a general appearance of the voice timbre even without it - which in fact lies in the basics of the "missing fundamental" phenomenon. To make things more interesting, IMD itself can be generated in... our own auditory system: http://www39.zippyshare.com/v/85188069/file.html |
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| Author: | mpex2006km [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Sorry for not responding but i was very busy. Now i don't seem to hear any difference with the latest version. IMD on voice seems to appear again. I recorded two samples one (sample a) being clipped and (sample b) being less clipped. Sample a seems to have the intermodulation distortion in the voice. Sample A http://www56.zippyshare.com/v/49813505/file.html Sample B http://www56.zippyshare.com/v/85742682/file.html |
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| Author: | Slawomir B. [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Intermod croaky voices problem! |
Hans, I listened to those samples from yesterday again, this time highpassed 250 Hz (simulating laptop speakers) and still got the same impression. So this vibration is there permanently. Surprisingly the waveform of these 2 samples side by side (with a phrase on the vocal that apparently gets distorted most), looked almost exactly the same. I couldn't see this vibration in the spectrum too. Harmonics also look similar and appear on the same frequencies. |
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