Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 6.10
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=3065		 Page 23 of 213
Author:  hvz [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Quote:
Red bars on INPUT (top meters) with Winamp EQ turned off and preamp in ST all the way down to 0.01.
Is this with the example .WAV file? Because this filter does not (should not?) affect the input display at all. And since it's recorded with peak level at -12 dB I don't understand this at all - the input bar should not get above 1/4th of its size. Pre Amp, Post Amp or any other settings don't (shouldn't) affect the input bars.

Note: I just realized that this filter ALSO cannot be combined with low latency phase rotation! So if you're running at latencies 512 or 1024, turn phase rotation off (for now).
Author:  Brian [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Quote:
Quote:
Red bars on INPUT (top meters) with Winamp EQ turned off and preamp in ST all the way down to 0.01.
Is this with the example .WAV file? Because this filter does not (should not?) affect the input display at all. And since it's recorded with peak level at -12 dB I don't understand this at all - the input bar should not get above 1/4th of its size. Pre Amp, Post Amp or any other settings don't (shouldn't) affect the input bars.
No, this is with my other MP3 files and with streaming audio. Even with hitting reset and taking preamp down to x0.00, streaming audio (right now, .977 80s Channel) is giving red bars on input if I don't enable Winamp's EQ. If I enable Winamp's EQ, even at 0 preamp and flat EQ settings, the red bars go away.

Also, it appears that the declipper likes the 0 or +dB preamp values in Winamp. If I use my normal -6 dB preamp in Winamp, even if I push the first declipper slider down by that same 6 dB, the processed sound is not as good as if I have a stronger input coming into Stereo Tool.

I have to go out for a while, but when I get back, I'll try again. Maybe it's just a matter of tinkering with a few settings, but it just seems that negative preamp values in Winamp are more difficult for this feature to handle.
Author:  hvz [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Quote:
No, this is with my other MP3 files and with streaming audio. Even with hitting reset and taking preamp down to x0.00, streaming audio (right now, .977 80s Channel) is giving red bars on input if I don't enable Winamp's EQ. If I enable Winamp's EQ, even at 0 preamp and flat EQ settings, the red bars go away.
Be a bit careful with that. As far as I can see, with the (old) Winamp version that I'm using, if I enable the equalizer/preamp in Winamp, Winamp itself is clipping the audio at an even lower level. If you get a red input bar with no changes in Winamp, that's exactly when you need the declipping filter :-) Input levels (assuming 16 bit audio) range from -32768 to + 32767; if these values are present in the signal the input bars turn red. (For the OUTPUT bars, they only turn red if the output values would be BIGGER than these values. But for input I cannot see if they were actually clipped or just exactly reach the peak levels).
Author:  Brian [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Quote:
Quote:
No, this is with my other MP3 files and with streaming audio. Even with hitting reset and taking preamp down to x0.00, streaming audio (right now, .977 80s Channel) is giving red bars on input if I don't enable Winamp's EQ. If I enable Winamp's EQ, even at 0 preamp and flat EQ settings, the red bars go away.
Be a bit careful with that. As far as I can see, with the (old) Winamp version that I'm using, if I enable the equalizer/preamp in Winamp, Winamp itself is clipping the audio at an even lower level. If you get a red input bar with no changes in Winamp, that's exactly when you need the declipping filter :-) Input levels (assuming 16 bit audio) range from -32768 to + 32767; if these values are present in the signal the input bars turn red. (For the OUTPUT bars, they only turn red if the output values would be BIGGER than these values. But for input I cannot see if they were actually clipped or just exactly reach the peak levels).
I'm using the latest version, 5.61, released 17 MAR 2011.

There is a setting that is defaulted ON that I have UNCHECKED (hence, OFF) that says:

"Use Limiter (helps prevent clipping) [Default: On]"

Again, I have that box UNCHECKED.

Also, I am not using Replay Gain, and under Playback, I am allowing 24 bit and surround sound, although I guess I could disable Surround Sound, since I don't use any of the Creative CMSS stuff, and only have a 2.1 system, so no surround anyway.

It might be beneficial for you to at least get version 5.61 and do exactly what I'm saying.

EQ Off in Winamp
Reset in Stereo Tool
Watch red bars on input.

Now, whether or not the red bars are just a cosmetic problem and there is no issue, that's something that you'll need to determine... All the tinkering so far has left the sound being very lifeless. If I use the EQ, even in a flat position, I can get a decent sound. If I don't use the EQ, dull and lifeless.

I can't explain it to you any more plainly. You need to test with varying setups, not just your own isolated environment. Sure, I might be a candidate for the loony bin, but not with respect to this. I can tinker more, but like I said, everything I've tried so far has made the sound lifeless.
Author:  Brian [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Naturally, I am a candidate for the loony bin...

The very frustrating thing is I can't seem to get consistent behavior. Now the EQ on/off isn't changing the red input bars. :o

If I try to shift the -6 pad from Winamp to ST, input bars are full red on numerous tracks and with streaming audio.

I give up... This feature isn't for me. Uses too much processing power and would require me to spend money to get rid of the 60 second nag, and then it would still use too much processing power.
Author:  eldoradofm [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Usual 24 bit is turned off in winamp. Can the stereotool dsp for winamp handle 24 bit?
Author:  Brian [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Quote:
Usual 24 bit is turned off in winamp. Can the stereotool dsp for winamp handle 24 bit?
It's been dealing with it fine for months upon months now... I think he said that it can accept 32-bit...

Just shifted down to 16-bit. No change. Still red bars.
Author:  eldoradofm [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
You do understand that even when the audio isn't clipped but it just reaches 0dB that the input bars on stereotool get red?
I'm going to try the same thing tomorrow to see how good it's working here.
Author:  Brian [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Quote:
You do understand that even when the audio isn't clipped but it just reaches 0dB that the input bars on stereotool get red?
I'm going to try the same thing tomorrow to see how good it's working here.
You do understand that I'm talking about FULL RED BARS ALL THE WAY ACROSS ON A VERY CONSISTENT BASIS, EVEN WHEN THE AUDIO LEVEL AS INDICATED BY THE BARS IS ALL THE WAY DOWN AROUND 50%????????

Like I said, this feature is not for me. I just don't have a new enough processor for it, so I give up testing / tweaking...

Have a good one...
Author:  eldoradofm [ Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
Well i gave it a try. The input bars are before the Pre Amp settings of stereo tool. So with EQ off in winamp it can get red, yes FULL RED BARS. With EQ on and PREAMP in winamp down only -0,5dB the red bars are gone when playing all kinds of music. If that's not the case with your setup i don't know what's the problem, maybe because the CPU is maxed out.
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