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Hypersonic V7 - Final
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=4056		 Page 3 of 5
Author:  michi95 [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Beta - Feedback requested
Quote:
I've been doing some serious exploring of the options, and have come up with this...
Do you use any values in STS beyond the standards of the GUI (besides spiritistic higher latency :mrgreen: ) ?
As we all know the center frequency changes persist, but every other non-standard values get lost if you touch anything in the corresponding sub-GUI.

So do we have to keep an eye on some special settings (that must be manually rewritten to STS) if we want to tweak this beta ?
Author:  Brian [ Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Beta - Feedback requested
Quote:
So do we have to keep an eye on some special settings (that must be manually rewritten to STS) if we want to tweak this beta ?
No.
Author:  Bojcha [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Beta - Feedback requested
i see what you done here, but there is problem. You'll have bigger "overall difference" in RMS level between highly compressed tracks and dynamic tracks.
You done it with slower "UpSpeed" but that's not the way. usually AGC works in ratio inf:1 which will give best AGC riding. ST is inf:1 in AGC. So, for this what you want to do, you need adjustable AGC ratio.
Author:  Brian [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Beta - Feedback requested
Quote:
i see what you done here, but there is problem. You'll have bigger "overall difference" in RMS level between highly compressed tracks and dynamic tracks.
Could you tell me a few tracks such as that to test with?
Quote:
You done it with slower "UpSpeed" but that's not the way. usually AGC works in ratio inf:1 which will give best AGC riding. ST is inf:1 in AGC. So, for this what you want to do, you need adjustable AGC ratio.
The gating brake I did works for tracks that start out soft and should stay soft for a while, as well as tracks like The Pretender where there was a recent very loud passage followed by a brief quiet passage before resuming being loud. It does not work for the "torture test" file though, as "Dreams" is a quiet track in comparison, and there's a fade-out involved too. The spoken intro to "When I Grow Up" should be at a lower volume, but it isn't.

The problem I see, which is what I mentioned in the wish list thread, is that the gain is never reduced on a track change or a silent passage. The only time gain gets reduced is if the look-ahead determines that what's coming up is too loud. This means that there will be instances where the soft passages have too much gain applied to them, and are thus "too loud" themselves. If the soft passages are too loud, then the transition to a loud passage will be more pronounced, as the starting volume will be higher than what it should have been.

I did some brief research (like 30-60 minutes worth) into AGCs, and one thing that was mentioned is that they can tend to make the softer passages too loud and the loud passages too soft. I also saw something about having two control variables, one on a short time horizon and the other a longer time horizon.

I really think the gain needs to be reduced more than just for times when the volume will be too loud. I understand that it "could" lead to pumping, but not if you weight the gain reduction, making it a conservative reduction.
Author:  Bojcha [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Beta - Feedback requested
Quote:
Could you tell me a few tracks such as that to test with?
Sure..
Alex Gaudino - Im in love (vocal edit) vs. The B52's - Dry County
David Guetta feat Fergie and Lmfao - Gettin over you vs. ABBA - Gimme Gimme Gimme
3OH!3 Feat. Katy Perry - Starstrukk (Official) vs. Ce Ce Peniston - Finally
etc..
Author:  Brian [ Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Beta - Feedback requested
Quote:
i see what you done here, but there is problem. You'll have bigger "overall difference" in RMS level between highly compressed tracks and dynamic tracks.
You done it with slower "UpSpeed" but that's not the way. usually AGC works in ratio inf:1 which will give best AGC riding. ST is inf:1 in AGC. So, for this what you want to do, you need adjustable AGC ratio.
I've tested the tracks that you've mentioned, and the comment that comes to mind is that broadcasting and DJ needs can be different than home user needs. I bumped up the AGC target output level by 2dB, but that impacts other tracks too.

What about a singleband AGC at the very end of the processing chain, and I do mean at the very end. You could then specify your target average RMS power. Wouldn't this gain up your softer ("dynamic") tracks, and gain down the louder (highly compressed) tracks?

Note to detractors: I fully and freely admit that I'm not as versed as I wish I was on this kind of stuff. I only recently picked back up doing this with any seriousness after a good 20 years of not doing anything with it at all. In other words, if this is a dumb idea, explain how and why, instead of just slagging.
Author:  Brian [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Release Candidate(s)
RC1 zip file in the first post

- More AGC changes
- High-pass at 35, low-pass at 17K (was 32 and 18K in beta5).
- Multiband soft limit, upspeed, downspeed, and clipping changes
- Slight EQ changes
- Increased vocal protection
- Increased Bass Boost slightly
- Changed singleband limiter
- Slightly more de-essing
- Very Deep Bass Distortion protection re-enabled
- Do not reduce bass below increased from 66% to 70%
- Peak detection steepness increased from 0.20% to 0.50%.
Author:  Brian [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Release Candidate(s)
RC2 added. Zip file in first post.

- AGC up speed increases
- Band 3 level before additional reduction increased from 35 to 37%.
- Bass Boost reduced slightly
- Multiband level, EQ, clipping, and steepness changes
- Singleband limiter amplification level reduced and up speed increased.
- Final limiter increased to 95% to help offset the singleband limiter amp level decrease
- Dirty Bass reduced
- Slight increase in bass clipping (always clip below).
- Reduced bass lowering sensitivity
Author:  phoenix [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Release Candidate(s)
Quote:
RC2 added. Zip file in first post.
Excellent work Brian. I am amazed at the similarities in your approach of MB and AGC with mine. 'Alejandro' was a pleasure to listen to with this preset.
I have a hunch that the 'way' we calibrated the MB attack and release speeds could be the same ;)

I never like a preset which makes vocals lose their prominence(take any vocal trance / progressive track for instance). Your attempt is truly in that direction.
For most contemporary recordings, this kinda sound profile is excellent. In some tracks, like Gladiator's theme OST, the silent passages sounded tad feeble because of slow rising action of AGC and high gating. I would rather count it as an exception - considering your preset really excels in most tracks.
Author:  Brian [ Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hypersonic V7 - Release Candidate(s)
Quote:
In some tracks, like Gladiator's theme OST, the silent passages sounded tad feeble because of slow rising action of AGC and high gating. I would rather count it as an exception - considering your preset really excels in most tracks.
Thanks for the compliments. Bojcha also mentioned something about vibrating vocals with RC1 that I said to check with RC2.

To be totally honest, I'm approaching the point where I simply can't do anything else. There are multiple things that really can't get much better within the existing software framework. Mainly, there needs to be the ability to control limiting or compression per band. A lot of these residual issues are caused by the need to compress bass frequencies to keep them under control, but the software does not allow to switch to limiting for the other bands. Also, it's still my opinion that the highpass is not steep enough, and switching to non-phase-linear does not help much, if at all, as it makes things sound warbly at times to me.
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