Stereo Tool :: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface

I think it's displaying the FM lowpass frequency in this case, instead of the non-FM one. That might be a bit unclear. We'll look into this. It's display-only anyway. (And the old GUI did the same thing, but it was displayed very small in the bottom so you probably never noticed it).

The limits of many sliders seem changed.

I know the point of this UI was partially to eliminate the need for basic to extreme tweaker modes, but I think a more advanced mode would be appreciated.

One with most boxes/cells expanded, including a smaller font size, and increased limits on sliders.

When the ability to input numbers manually is introduced, will we be able to go past the limits this way?

Quick question
Is the FM Analyzer going to be removed with this GUI change or has it not been implemented yet?

I can tell you with certainty that the old modes will not come back. They weren't maintainable and a huge part of why the old interface kept breaking.
We're still working on font sizes, spacing and information density. This includes a zoom-slider.

We probably won't mess with slider limits though, but again: let us know which ones are breaking your workflow.

First of all the clipper loudness sliders only go to -/+ 6 instead of 12. And since the simple clipper is not available while the Advanced clipper is enabled, it's not possible to adjust the drive with that meter either.

When I think of more, should I put them in a new post or continue editing this one?

Would it be reasonable to add the simple clipper drive slider to the home processing screen if enabled?

Quote:

Would it be reasonable to add the simple clipper drive slider to the home processing screen if enabled?

There is a loudness slider with a -/+3 dB range in the home processing screen under Quick Adjust when the Advanced Clipper is enabled.

Quote:

Would it be reasonable to add the simple clipper drive slider to the home processing screen if enabled?

There is a loudness slider with a -/+3 dB range in the home processing screen under Quick Adjust when the Advanced Clipper is enabled.

Sorry, I meant for further control than the +/-3db difference. As TJ Evers pointed out, when both are enabled, you can control the loudness of the advanced clipper by just using the Simple Clipper drive. A Clipper Drive seemed like an easy meta control to have handy outside of the Simple Clipper menu.

Also as user-friendliness for folks who haven't upgraded to the Basic license. I figure if the UI is being designed for usability, you might be seeing an uptick in new users who don't want to dig for drive. I ran into this particular experience yesterday.

But since the limits of the Advanced Clipper are being restored, I suppose it's really just a QOL thing at this point. Thanks!

Author:	kj_dunnink [ Sat May 28, 2022 10:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
Quote: I think it's displaying the FM lowpass frequency in this case, instead of the non-FM one. That might be a bit unclear. We'll look into this. It's display-only anyway. (And the old GUI did the same thing, but it was displayed very small in the bottom so you probably never noticed it). Thanks, hadn't noticed that indeed. Will check it later on my system that still runs the 9.90 build. Another thing I've noticed, is that the settings can't be stored to a preset from the web browser.

Author:	MrKlorox [ Sat May 28, 2022 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
The limits of many sliders seem changed. From the bass synthesis to natural dynamics to the AGC target level to the clipper. This feels less adjustable than the previous UI and it's kinda frustrating. I realize most people don't need extreme settings, and if I was better at configuring/mastering I wouldn't need them myself. But I'm definitely not there yet. I know the point of this UI was partially to eliminate the need for basic to extreme tweaker modes, but I think a more advanced mode would be appreciated. One with most boxes/cells expanded, including a smaller font size, and increased limits on sliders. When the ability to input numbers manually is introduced, will we be able to go past the limits this way?

Author:	t.j.evers [ Mon May 30, 2022 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
Quote: The limits of many sliders seem changed. Correct. If you feel like the new limits are too restrictive for some sliders, please list them in this thread. Quote: I know the point of this UI was partially to eliminate the need for basic to extreme tweaker modes, but I think a more advanced mode would be appreciated. I can tell you with certainty that the old modes will not come back. They weren't maintainable and a huge part of why the old interface kept breaking. Quote: One with most boxes/cells expanded, including a smaller font size, and increased limits on sliders. We're still working on font sizes, spacing and information density. This includes a zoom-slider. We probably won't mess with slider limits though, but again: let us know which ones are breaking your workflow. Quote: When the ability to input numbers manually is introduced, will we be able to go past the limits this way? Maybe, but we're still not sure on the details of this.

Author:	hvz [ Mon May 30, 2022 11:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
Quote: Quick question Is the FM Analyzer going to be removed with this GUI change or has it not been implemented yet? It hasn't been implemented yet, I think it also feels way more logical to turn it into a separate program. In the existing GUI it was kinda "hacked in".

Author:	MrKlorox [ Mon May 30, 2022 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
Quote: I can tell you with certainty that the old modes will not come back. They weren't maintainable and a huge part of why the old interface kept breaking. We're still working on font sizes, spacing and information density. This includes a zoom-slider. Fair enough! By "mode" I really just meant an easy switch/button to expand most cells or enable a higher density. The slider will help. Quote: We probably won't mess with slider limits though, but again: let us know which ones are breaking your workflow. Cool, I'll start making a list. First of all the clipper loudness sliders only go to -/+ 6 instead of 12. And since the simple clipper is not available while the Advanced clipper is enabled, it's not possible to adjust the drive with that meter either. Would it be reasonable to add the simple clipper drive slider to the home processing screen if enabled? I only need to turn down the signal so much because the AGC Threshold limit is now -12 instead of the previous -38. By the time it gets through True Bass, the signal is just too loud for massive wubs. I also like to have the option to turn down bass synthesis to -12 to reduce the effect but not disable it entirely. It's an amazing effect that can sound good extremely faint or thuddingly deep, depending on that slider. When I think of more, should I put them in a new post or continue editing this one?

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Author:	t.j.evers [ Mon May 30, 2022 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
Quote: First of all the clipper loudness sliders only go to -/+ 6 instead of 12. And since the simple clipper is not available while the Advanced clipper is enabled, it's not possible to adjust the drive with that meter either. Whenever the Advanced Clipper is enabled, it completely takes over from the Simple Clipper. That's why we hide the Simple Clipper when the Advanced Clipper is enabled. To preserve compatibility, we now display the actual clipper drive (multiplied by the "Adjust volume" slider under the Simple Clipper) in the Advanced Clipper. This has always been the case, it just didn't display properly. So you're correct: you can stretch the limits of the clipper drive slider by: Disabling the Advanced Clipper Enabling the Simple Clipper Boosting the "Simple clipper drive" to 150% Enabling the Advanced Clipper (while keeping the Simple Clipper active) Don't worry: we'll just fix the limit in the first place so that this never has to be done. Quote: When I think of more, should I put them in a new post or continue editing this one? Put them in a new post when you have a few, we'll keep track internally.

Author:	hvz [ Mon May 30, 2022 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
Quote: Would it be reasonable to add the simple clipper drive slider to the home processing screen if enabled? There is a loudness slider with a -/+3 dB range in the home processing screen under Quick Adjust when the Advanced Clipper is enabled.

Author:	MrKlorox [ Mon May 30, 2022 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
Quote: Quote: Would it be reasonable to add the simple clipper drive slider to the home processing screen if enabled? There is a loudness slider with a -/+3 dB range in the home processing screen under Quick Adjust when the Advanced Clipper is enabled. Sorry, I meant for further control than the +/-3db difference. As TJ Evers pointed out, when both are enabled, you can control the loudness of the advanced clipper by just using the Simple Clipper drive. A Clipper Drive seemed like an easy meta control to have handy outside of the Simple Clipper menu. Also as user-friendliness for folks who haven't upgraded to the Basic license. I figure if the UI is being designed for usability, you might be seeing an uptick in new users who don't want to dig for drive. I ran into this particular experience yesterday. But since the limits of the Advanced Clipper are being restored, I suppose it's really just a QOL thing at this point. Thanks!

Author:	hvz [ Mon May 30, 2022 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
Quote: Quote: Quote: Would it be reasonable to add the simple clipper drive slider to the home processing screen if enabled? There is a loudness slider with a -/+3 dB range in the home processing screen under Quick Adjust when the Advanced Clipper is enabled. Sorry, I meant for further control than the +/-3db difference. As TJ Evers pointed out, when both are enabled, you can control the loudness of the advanced clipper by just using the Simple Clipper drive. A Clipper Drive seemed like an easy meta control to have handy outside of the Simple Clipper menu. Also as user-friendliness for folks who haven't upgraded to the Basic license. I figure if the UI is being designed for usability, you might be seeing an uptick in new users who don't want to dig for drive. I ran into this particular experience yesterday. But since the limits of the Advanced Clipper are being restored, I suppose it's really just a QOL thing at this point. Thanks! The idea for Quick Adjust is that it allows small adjustments to the preset, which should be small enough to not make it sound horrible (since that's what happens to many people who start to play with Stereo Tool and don't really know what they are doing). So, assuming that a preset is designed to sound good at competitive levels, adding more than 3 dB drive to the clipper is probably too much - and removing more than 3 dB is probably not going to improve anything in the audio quality anymore. That's the reason for the small range (but again, please correct us if we are wrong, we had to pick 'sane' values here and this is why we're posting this in beta first). For the effect that Simple Clipper has: What we are now planning to do is to, once, upon loading, adjust the Advanced Clipper drive to a value that takes the Simple Clipper drive into account, but after that the range will be -12 to +12 dB. The fact that the two influence each other was caused by a bad decision many years ago. We'll break the dependency now. (I had hoped to get that working today, but it will have to wait till tomorrow - we will post a new beta tonight with some fixes for reported issues).

Author:	MrKlorox [ Mon May 30, 2022 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stereo Tool 10 preview: New user interface
I understand now. Quick-Adjust is purposefully child-proofed. In that case, what about a different "Favorites" page for sliders and toggles you use all the time (for people who are not necessarily running stations or streaming)? Perhaps with a small shortcut icon to send you directly to that particular processing page next to the item. It was handy having the main processing page full of toggles, and this seems like a way for people to build their own, omitting anything they don't want. Should I throw that in the wish list forum instead?

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