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Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=5722		 Page 19 of 33
Author:  MLM [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
Quote:
Quote:
Noted that since version 7:51 normal output changes when connecting the fm transmitter, the signal in the normal output responds to filter the FM output. In the version 7:50 it does not.
You're saying it changes when you *connect* a transmitter? That makes no sense... unless something is wrong in the connections or the sound card. You're not talking about turning FM on and off? Because then it could very well be.
Normal output changes when you turn fm transmitter. in stereotool including the signal output is normal with pre emphasis
Author:  DJ-DOGGY [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
This is reported by me long posts ago.
Author:  REA [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
Quote:
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I noticed that if in normal output the signal selection is set from "de-enphasized version of FM output" to "separately output stream" the cpu load changes from 55% to 66%. (ST 7:52 beta17).
Sorry for my bad english.
You're saying it changes when you *connect* a transmitter? That makes no sense... unless something is wrong in the connections or the sound card. You're not talking about turning FM on and off? Because then it could very well be.


Attachments:
With De-enphatized output.png
With De-enphatized output.png [ 89.65 KiB | Viewed 4999 times ]
cpu load 66.3% with separately streaming output.png
cpu load 66.3% with separately streaming output.png [ 110.58 KiB | Viewed 4999 times ]
cpu load =55.6% with de-enphatized output.png
cpu load =55.6% with de-enphatized output.png [ 88.31 KiB | Viewed 4999 times ]
Author:  Modulator [ Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
Quote:
Re-record 'This sound is processed by' thingy. It sounds annoying and I hear it on too many stations now... (even big ones with millions of listeners lol... they should really get a license!)
HAHAHAHAHAHA :D Is this really true? Unbelievable :lol:

Hmm, is it a deja-vu or did I ask you long time ago to re-record it :roll:
Maybe a melody also to be more intrusive, I could make a simple one!

Your product is the number one processing software (after Breakaway died) so I would expect little more respect from commercial users.
Author:  RobertSack [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
@Action:
The Band´s crossover steepness in the 8200 is about 6dB/octave.
The crossover frequencies are 100Hz, 550Hz, 2,5kHz, 6kHz.

@weskeene:
You Rock! The Band coupling behaviour you described (like in the Orbans) is exactly correct and it works in the Orbans like I expect to word. But I am a friend of the coupling Matrix, cause this is more flexible and you can achieve (at least nearly) the same Sound results. In the current Version it is e.g. not possible to couple Band 3 to Band 4 in a 5- Band Preset.
With the Matrix you can put a Portion of the source band´s control value into the control value of the Destination band - what you want. What is so wrong with this? OK, the Limiters should alway be uncoupled! And it is only necessary to couple neighbor band, so the number of the controls in the Matrix could be reduced.
With the Matrix you can do what you want, it is ultra-flexible. Don´t you think so?
Author:  hvz [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
Quote:
HAHAHAHAHAHA :D Is this really true? Unbelievable :lol:
The #1 station in a market with over 50 million people. Their site claims they reach 8 million listeners (I don't know if that's simultaneously, per day, per week or something else). I found out because there was a thread on a forum where people were asking why there was an English speaking guy with a very annoying voice ( ;) ) talking through the broadcast regularly.
Author:  hvz [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
Quote:
@Action:
The Band´s crossover steepness in the 8200 is about 6dB/octave.
The crossover frequencies are 100Hz, 550Hz, 2,5kHz, 6kHz.

@weskeene:
You Rock! The Band coupling behaviour you described (like in the Orbans) is exactly correct and it works in the Orbans like I expect to word. But I am a friend of the coupling Matrix, cause this is more flexible and you can achieve (at least nearly) the same Sound results. In the current Version it is e.g. not possible to couple Band 3 to Band 4 in a 5- Band Preset.
With the Matrix you can put a Portion of the source band´s control value into the control value of the Destination band - what you want. What is so wrong with this? OK, the Limiters should alway be uncoupled! And it is only necessary to couple neighbor band, so the number of the controls in the Matrix could be reduced.
With the Matrix you can do what you want, it is ultra-flexible. Don´t you think so?
Ok, I have removed it in the latest beta (and you can control 3->4 and 4->5 in the latest beta, and 3->2 and 2->1). I was thinking that most of the necessary control is there now anyway, but I might be wrong... Actually I also think that the behavior of the matrix wasn't really correct.

For example, if you have loud bass + loud highs, I would like it if it would be possible to lower the highs a bit to avoid distortion. So, the highs band should then be coupled to the bass band. However, if there's not much highs it shouldn't be. In fact, what you would really want in this case is that you can lower the highs if the OUTPUT level of both the bass and the highs is high. But that's completely different from what the matrix (and also the new Band Linking) does.

If anyone has a good idea for this let me know (it might be an option to calculate the output level for each band and use that to control other bands, but that would easily cause intermodulation distortion if you connect a high band to a low one so it doesn't seem to be the solution).

Also, please let me know if you want the matrix back. Please try the latest beta first, which has more elaborate "Band Linking" (I have to use 2 different names... Band Linking is what Wes Keene described) settings than earlier beta's.
Author:  RobertSack [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
Quote:
Quote:
@Action:
The Band´s crossover steepness in the 8200 is about 6dB/octave.
The crossover frequencies are 100Hz, 550Hz, 2,5kHz, 6kHz.

@weskeene:
You Rock! The Band coupling behaviour you described (like in the Orbans) is exactly correct and it works in the Orbans like I expect to word. But I am a friend of the coupling Matrix, cause this is more flexible and you can achieve (at least nearly) the same Sound results. In the current Version it is e.g. not possible to couple Band 3 to Band 4 in a 5- Band Preset.
With the Matrix you can put a Portion of the source band´s control value into the control value of the Destination band - what you want. What is so wrong with this? OK, the Limiters should alway be uncoupled! And it is only necessary to couple neighbor band, so the number of the controls in the Matrix could be reduced.
With the Matrix you can do what you want, it is ultra-flexible. Don´t you think so?
Ok, I have removed it in the latest beta (and you can control 3->4 and 4->5 in the latest beta, and 3->2 and 2->1). I was thinking that most of the necessary control is there now anyway, but I might be wrong... Actually I also think that the behavior of the matrix wasn't really correct.

For example, if you have loud bass + loud highs, I would like it if it would be possible to lower the highs a bit to avoid distortion. So, the highs band should then be coupled to the bass band. However, if there's not much highs it shouldn't be. In fact, what you would really want in this case is that you can lower the highs if the OUTPUT level of both the bass and the highs is high. But that's completely different from what the matrix (and also the new Band Linking) does.

If anyone has a good idea for this let me know (it might be an option to calculate the output level for each band and use that to control other bands, but that would easily cause intermodulation distortion if you connect a high band to a low one so it doesn't seem to be the solution).

Also, please let me know if you want the matrix back. Please try the latest beta first, which has more elaborate "Band Linking" (I have to use 2 different names... Band Linking is what Wes Keene described) settings than earlier beta's.
OK, but what is if you have 7 or 9 bans and want to couple e.g. 3 to 4. That´s only possible with the Matrix.
And I think it´s not a band coupling issue to prevent loud highs from distortion when loud bass waves do occur. This is the task of ABDP, and this section does this job very well.

In Basics the band coupling does add the gain reduction signal of the source band to the gain reduction signal produced by the target band’s compressor sidechain. This sum determined the gain of the target band’s VCA.
The only downside of this is, when this action loweres the drive to the target band’s sidechain below the compression threshold for that band, it causes the sidechain’s gain reduction signal to decrease towards 0 dB at a speed determined by the target band’s release time setting.
To get rid of this, the behavior has to be changed so that the gain reduction in the target band immediately becomes the higher of the target band sidechain’s gain control signal or the source band’s gain reduction signal as multiplied by the relevant Band Coupling control. So the attack and release time constants of the target band’s compressor sidechain no longer affect the band coupling.

Do you know what i mean?
If it would work so, it would be perfect i think.
Author:  dj_szpajda [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
Hmm 6db/oct in ST looks very funny ;)
Image
Author:  hvz [ Thu Dec 18, 2014 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.52 BETA
Quote:
OK, but what is if you have 7 or 9 bans and want to couple e.g. 3 to 4. That´s only possible with the Matrix.
True. There is a global control (the Band Coupling slider in the Multiband main panel) that controls all couplings... but what would you want to achieve with this? (Why would you want a coupling between bands 3 and 4 that's different from -say- the one between 4 and 5?)
Quote:
And I think it´s not a band coupling issue to prevent loud highs from distortion when loud bass waves do occur. This is the task of ABDP, and this section does this job very well.[/quote[
True, but I've seen it done in other processors. It can smooth things for the clipper allowing -maybe- higher clipping levels without getting distortion.
Quote:
In Basics the band coupling does add the gain reduction signal of the source band to the gain reduction signal produced by the target band’s compressor sidechain. This sum determined the gain of the target band’s VCA.
The only downside of this is, when this action loweres the drive to the target band’s sidechain below the compression threshold for that band, it causes the sidechain’s gain reduction signal to decrease towards 0 dB at a speed determined by the target band’s release time setting.
Now I'm confused. What currently happens is that if band 4 wants 6 dB of reduction and band 5 wants 12 dB of reduction, and coupling (on band 4) from band 4 is 100% and from band 5 is 25%, with Normalize turned on, then the actual values used are 80% and 20% and band 4 will get 6 dB * 80% + 12 dB * 20% = 7.2 dB reduction. So, the reduction can also become less - if band 5 would have "asked for" 0 dB reduction and band 4 still for 6 dB, you would get 4.8 dB reduction in band 4.
Quote:
To get rid of this, the behavior has to be changed so that the gain reduction in the target band immediately becomes the higher of the target band sidechain’s gain control signal or the source band’s gain reduction signal as multiplied by the relevant Band Coupling control.
You mean always use the maximum, so in the examples above that would lead to 7.2 dB and 6 dB instead of 7.2 dB and 4.8 dB? That might be a good idea...
Quote:
So the attack and release time constants of the target band’s compressor sidechain no longer affect the band coupling.
I don't understand this one...


Just a small explanation of what band coupling - in my mind - was supposed to do.

Say, you have a preset with 9 bands. Now if there's a 'hole' in the spectrum, it can happen that one band is not reduced at all, while all the others are reduced a lot. Which would sound the same as boosting one frequency a lot - say by 6 or 12 dB. I probably don't have to tell you that this sounds pretty bad (you can easily try it out, just increase the Band Mix of one of the center bands by 6-12 dB).

The whole idea of band coupling as it currently works (the slider, or the matrix) is to avoid having 1 band stick out too much. If the surrounding bands are down a lot, they should pull this center band with them.

I can indeed imagine (as I wrote above) that the opposite might be less needed: If one band is very far down momentarily that's probably ok, especially since there will be a lot of audio in that band at that moment anyway (otherwise it wouldn't be down that far).
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