| Stereo Tool https://forums.stereotool.com/ |
|
| Stereo Tool 6.10 https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=3065 |
Page 142 of 213 |
| Author: | hvz [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
Quote: Quote: This is not only for this betas. This is from always .. atleast last two betas are bit better.
So... Then this is - again - better than in older BETA's and version 6.10? In that case I'm going to leave it for now...I actually had some things built in in v6.10 and upto BETA091 to reduce this issue - but from what you're saying apparently that didn't work. 1. Does this also happen if you set the bass clipping level at 100% (1.0)? (my guess: no) 2. Does this occur for 'pure' bass kicks (no mids or highs present), or also in other situations? (my guess: only for pure bass kicks) I'll try to buy new headphones today. |
|
| Author: | hvz [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
Quote: Quote: Quote: Is 'Advanced Highs Protection' currently functional?
No. Do you still need it?I already thought I heard one of those in 1 track, but the ones that were really bad before seem to be much better since I've reimplemented the clippers. Anyway, should be fairly easy to get running again. |
|
| Author: | phoenix [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
Quote: I already thought I heard one of those in 1 track, but the ones that were really bad before seem to be much better since I've reimplemented the clippers. Anyway, should be fairly easy to get running again.
Thank you Hans. It's not so pronunced in natural music. But I feel this happening in trance/electronic music - where after a soft part, bass and highs rush in together with an impact -sort of.
|
|
| Author: | Bojcha [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
Quote: 1. Does this also happen if you set the bass clipping level at 100% (1.0)? (my guess: no)
1. Less - i already said that when all is at 100% and sensitivity to 0 that it still 'eat' punch.2. Does this occur for 'pure' bass kicks (no mids or highs present), or also in other situations? (my guess: only for pure bass kicks) 2. Again, Less - if Only bass is present it still eat punch - less then in (1) Quote: I'll try to buy new headphones today.
Tell us what you'll buy. |
|
| Author: | Luke [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
Quote: Quote: Quote: I'll try to buy new headphones today.
Tell us what you'll buy. Bose, better sound thru (marketing) research. |
|
| Author: | phoenix [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
This should have been in the section 'Achieving Best Sound' - however for the sake of getting speedy answer I am posting here. Apologies in advance. I have been working on the MB section for sometime now. Referring to the Help description for getting a balanced sound - the levels should be consistent (using median values) for a given playlist across the audio spectrum. I have few doubts here: 1. Which is better?...same attack speed for all bands and likewise for decay speeds. And then go about altering the soft threshold until the median values are same. OR Start with same soft threshold for all bands and then go about tailoring the attack & decay speeds for every band until the medians are all at the same level. 2. When we say that the content should be consistent for all bands...is it mandatory that the levels should be halfway down the visual scale or can I tailor them to be consistent at, say three-quarters of the visual scale? Any side-effect for either of the scenarios? 3. If I intend to use say, 3 Band AGC, do I still need to calibrate Multiband using SINGLE band AGC? Or should I first make desired settings for the AGC - (2 band or 3 band at preferred RMS level) and then go ahead with the MB calibration? |
|
| Author: | hvz [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
Well I got some new headphones, and now it's clear to me what Bojcha talks about when turning the protection filter on and off. And there's no solution for this: If I make the bass ANY louder it will punch (lol...) holes in the mid and high frequencies. The thing is, without protection the bass can be insanely loud and just remove other sounds completely - that's the distortion that you hear. After the bass clipping, the bass is still almost as loud as before (it is rounded off a bit, but it should still be close). But when all the other sounds are added to the mix and the total is clipped, each tone 'demands' some headroom. Hence this effect. Ok, so far so good. But now there's the effect of the highpass filter. I've tried using Loudness, and Loudness + highpass. No difference in punch at all (I couldn't hear anything, so I used a comparison tool to compare the outputs - no difference in average levels at all, except for the low frequencies of course). Now trying Bojcha's latest preset with and without HPF... -> No difference at all. Actually there should be even slightly more punch because I see that the highs have more headroom - only about 0.02 dB or so so that's probably not noticeable. Bojcha, can you tell me a song name and which preset you are using? |
|
| Author: | hvz [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
@phoenix: 1: Soft threshold should normally not be the same for each frequency. For example bass usually has a far bigger amplitude than highs. So use different soft limit levels for each frequency band. 2: You can choose any value you like. Lower means more compression (fuller, denser, less punchy sound); higher means closer to original. 3. Well, you want a flat output to get a sound that's similar to the input. If you later remove some highs for example by using a 3-band AGC, the multiband will compensate for that to generate a sound closer to the original, but with less compression (more punch). So I would always calibrate it using a 1-band AGC. |
|
| Author: | Bojcha [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
When i get home i'll prepare examples. |
|
| Author: | hvz [ Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 6.10 |
BETA100: - Bass clipping frequency sliders are working again. Setting them slightly higher than the default helps to remove more distortion, and seems to have little impact on the rest of the sound. - Added a 'Slightly more bass' checkbox; check it and there will be less bass filtering. This leads to approx. 0.3 dB higher bass peak levels. But also to a bit more distortion. I've kept the change from 099A because I've measured the difference and the highs are coming out slightly louder. Unfortunately this has an impact on the bass quality, so I might try to find a better solution later. Winamp DSP plugin: http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_ ... 20-100.exe Stand alone version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 20-100.exe VST version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 20-100.dll NOT AVAILABLE VST version (No SSE2): http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 20-100.dll NOT AVAILABLE Command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 20-100.exe Linux command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA620-100 NOT AVAILABLE Linux GUI version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA620-100 NOT AVAILABLE TODO: - Fix loading changed multiband frequencies - Add buffer and filter for SCA output (SCA1 ok, SCA2 ok) - Finish AGC improvement - make mono value configurable (replace checkbox by slider) 1 hour --> NO, not needed - anything else needed? -> NO - Fix Punch - Check what to do with new filters (such as bass AGC) - keep them, remove them, change them? --> KEEP - Save new BASS_AGC setting in VST mode - Loudness: Annoying cracking sound in bass. Slightly present in 5.00, worse in 6.00, maybe even worse in 6.10. Only when bass is too loud. Much worse than in Final Limiter (at same input level!) - so this clearly indicates a bug. Most likely cause: The filter that was added to remove bass artifacts....... - Fix crash at program close - Fix VST plugin version (does not run) - Dynamically drop 'Allow louder highs, even if it causes vibrations' to 0 when bass filter suspects noticeable voice vibrations. - Reduce Loudness CPU load - Check and remove static variables - Finish new de-essing filter (check what to do with the settings, remove at least some!) - Convert Multiband input to MONO, then use arrays [2][4096] --> should give speedup. - FAILED - Natural Dynamics: Fix or remove transient boost - Natural Dynamics: Add expected + strength slider per band - Finish declipping filter (clipping level detection + level reduction in dB). 1. Figure out why removal of unwanted frequencies causes flat lines at high quality setting with small overlap. This causes distortion, with this fixed repairs are MUCH better. 2. Fix MP3 correction, automatically scale down when this deteriorates the sound. --> TOP part fails! - Declipping filter: Fix low latency behavior - Always oversample clipping (configurable) - Declipping filter: Change detection at lower input levels. - "Test Right Channel" in "FM Transmitter Calibration" does not work since v6.10 (standalone) (bojcha) - Declipper window close function - check! - Seems ok - Scopes black background? - Add AGC start level - Declipping filter: Add comparting of sample history to make sure loud bursts are still detected properly (now, with 16 blocks of history, 65 samples are removed even when ignoring just 0.1%). I should also check the current block (probably with a margin of a factor 2). - Declipping filter: Use reliability of tilt detection to determine movement speed; slowly move to default tilt (configurable!) - Declipping filter: Far too many samples are marked as 'maybe/probably' clipped. Histogram not used or not cleared? - Declipping filter: Optimize tilt detection for performance. SSE2 for maximum. And keep separate smaller histograms to determine the maximum (should perform much better). - Declipping filter: Cleaned histogram must be mirrorred. After cleanup, mirror center is place where SIGMA above == SIGMA below! Only use on the lower end. Then run cleanup again! The result should contain approximately the same amount of data above and below. If not, that indicates incorrect detection. - Declipping filter: Add a long term histogram, and use maximum of short term and long term start clipping level detection. - Declipping filter: Check if 'No declipping when tilt cannot be determined' can safely be turned on. - Declipping filter: Add setting and saving of new sliders (history size, percentage of highest samples to drop, tilt detection range start, end and precision) - Declipping filter: Check why higher Quality settings causes cracking sounds. Answer: Rounding error, and too low filtering values to remove it. - Move pre-emphasis to end of processing - AGC: Separate 'Remove remaining peaks' settings for band 1 and 2 - Channels L/R swap in stand alone version when changing filtering/quality (eldoradofm) - Declipping filter: Optimize peak matching for performance: Move determination to extra preprocessing step DONE; try to change if statements to min/max or something IMPOSSIBLE. - Fix changing value of 'final limit' in Multiband when changing Loudness settings. - Save bandpass filter order - Save all new settings, also through VST interface - Declipping filter: Change default values for Maximum distortion and Step size (see Bojcha's post) - Try to improve reconstruction match (should remove artifacts for low bass + soft highs) ■ FAILED - Declipper: Fix loud bass with soft higher frequencies issue. Do something with loudest frequency vs. peak level - if it cannot fit (Madonna, Metallica) there must be clipping, otherwise there might not be. On top of this I should somehow try to preserve deformed bass sounds (if they are not hard clipped). Maybe this will work: Find loudest frequency, if it's very low. Than assume that it's clipped at the maximum restoration level (?); generate a new tone (using lowpass filter) of the same frequency and clip that at some margin below the maximum peak level. Then filter the input signal based on the FFT of the clipped signal. Finally analyze this new signal; if it is indeed clipped the filtered output will resemble a clipped waveform (visible in sample histogram; no tilt issues!) instead of a sine wave. Use the output of this as input to determine how strict the clipping detection for the input waveform should be (eg. based on normal or sinusoid signals). This is all way too difficult and it just won't work. Here's the real solution: Detect if a loud bass sound is present, if so make sure that symmetrical clipping detection is used, possibly with automatic 'maybe clipped' level adjustment. This should only slightly affect Metallica (which still sounds very reasonable with symmetrical enabled), but has a big effect on DBN - Jack is Back (which is far less affected with symmetrical enabled; auto likely/maybe adjustment based on symmetrical should help even more). Using veil solution now - Move veil processing to detilted signal - Switch to symmetrical detection if very loud very low frequencies are present NO, not needed anymore because artifacts are fixed using another mechanism - Fix veil and detilting display (in declipper window; separate windows for separate channels; no change in DrawWave code needed!) - Fix declipper display cleanup - If the reconstructed samples are close to the original samples, and there are a lot of 'clipped' samples OR there are very loud low frequencies present, don't declip. Also add texture based filtering, and use a slider to set the sensitivity. Also increase the effect of bass and reduce overall level. - Save veil settings and 'not reconstruct if like original' (STS + VST) - Fix clipper (idea: Clip, filter, filter diff against clip diff, apply). - Can I combine 2 FFT windows into 1? That would give half of the improvement of the smooth window, without CPU load increase. - Old clipper seems to sound better. (New with less steps also sounds good). Use new clipper AFTER old clipper, and use already clipped and cleaned signal as 'clean_input'. Or try a bunch of short clips, than a long one to clean up, then some short (but not very short) ones to clean up pre/post ringing. - Declipper EXTREMELY slow when feeding DC input. - Big window output is smaller than normal one - no it's not. - Bass AGC RMS display does not work (always displays 0.00) - Longer history for maximum level? - In FM calibration 38 kHz is NOT working. EDIT: And more bugs: 23 kHz is not at 23 kHz 28 kHz is not at 28 kHz 33 kHz is not at 33 kHz 43 kHz is not at 43 kHz 48 kHz is not at 48 kHz 53 kHz is not at 53 kHz. - not true, tested and all seems to work fine. There is another issue though: This filter still uses the very old windowing method and sounds crappy (artifacts). To be looked into for the next Stereo Tool version. - Remove Natural Dynamics - Partially done, does the crash come from here? No, for some reason ANY call on my system to InternetOpenUrl in a Winamp plugin causes crashes. But this happens even with version 3.03, so it's not something new - it's only something new on my system... - When "Enable FM transmitter calibration" is OFF and you click "Calibrate FM transmitter ..." and then close calibration screen again, then "Enable FM transmitter calibration" is turned ON automatically. - Use DLL name in INI file name (requested by Jazler) - Add registration to command line versions - AGC: Added 'Force level below' slider for improved peak control. If the 'down speed' causes the volume to be much higher than the calculated 'target' volume, with this slider you can force the volume to go down anyway if the difference gets too big. - Registration key must be written to DEFAULT ini file. And for stand alone version, ini file StereoTool.ini should automatically be converted to stereo_tool.ini to match existing ini files. - FM Calibration beep tones are still not corrected. - Stand alone: Check box to FM Calibration on/off missing in the FM transmitter calibration window. - Declipper artifacts ( viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3065&p=12527#p12527 ): Adjust defaults or increase bass sensitivity. - No, replaced MORE switch by slider. - Add extra bass clipping step to clipper. - Finish blind interface WAITING FOR FEEDBACK TODO: TEST: Only display this window when needed. - RDS issue reported here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3703&p=11524#p11524 partially solved - Optimize clipper code: Reflection, smaller overlap (stronger reflection possible?); optimize RMS search filter - Fix Loudness display - Remove or simplify 'Advanced highs protection', look at other protection mechanisms. - Save new clipper options (STS+VST) - VST: Bass AGC up/down speeds setting problem. - Smarter lows volume drop against highs protection: First clip using reduced highs (highs protection filter), then do it again but do NOT lower the lows below the level found in the 1st step. - SSE version crashes (reported in email by Francis) - Update presets? (BASS_AGC etc.) 1 day - Change version number 1 hour - Release 1 hour - Add composite clipper - Add lowpass filter for stereo signal (will cause a lot of extra latency!) - it might be possible to avoid this latency using a Hilbert transform - Add smarter clipping detection. Maybe something much simpler suffices: Current clipping detection with threshold + flat line detection - Declipping filter: Automatically override the 3 clipping level sliders if the clipping level is detected very clearly (clear thin spike in sample value histogram). - NONSENSE, this is already done by the histogram function. But it can be made a BIT better - I think - by automatically LOWERING the 'always clipped' slider if a lot of data is present at the highest few bins (but care is needed for DBN - Jack is Back like tracks) - Declipping filter: Create a new histogram after declipping, clean up and subtract from original. - Change stand alone version to 32 bits. - Optimization: Reduce CPU usage when input is silence. - Non phase linear highpass filter: Make steeper - Natural Dynamics: Attempt to reduce number of bands by 2 (memory + cpu DIV 2), using bands with sloppy slopes (no interaction between bands -> memory usage DIV 2, out-of-cache reads gone, hopefull final filter gone too -> CPU DIV 2 again). - Natural Dynamics: Voices, especially in chorus, still sound weird. - Natural Dynamics: Smooth out different bands more to reduce low-bitrate-MP3-like sounds. - Natural Dynamics: Optimize situation with no interaction between bands for performance. - Natural Dynamics: Save settings in VST version - AGC: Sudden loud kicks (32:40) - much faster drop! IDEA: IGNORE FAST 2ND STAGE DROP IF THE EFFECT IS LOW. - AGC: Try frequency separator implementation (2 or 3 different volume measurements, take lowest). Should protect loud voices much better. - FM Calibration causes artifacts and latency. - Highpass before Multiband etc? Not for now. |
|
| Page 142 of 213 | All times are UTC+02:00 |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited https://www.phpbb.com/ |
|