Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 5.02
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=2661		 Page 15 of 99
Author:  michi95 [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
I have FM demos from many processors
Maybe a naive question:
Are those demos generally:
A. without pre-emphasis/de-emphasis
B. with pre-emphasis (without de-emphasis)
or
C. with pre-emphasis and de-emphasis
:?:
Ok, A. seemingly not
:arrow:
http://www.orban.com/products/radio/fm/ ... udioclips/

With or without de-emphasis (B. or C.) ?

Or is the processing itself different for 75µs and 50µs emphasis (besides the pre-emphasis difference) ?


@ Hans

I use Beta 9 and the latest preset from Bojcha "exp010.sts" has not too much highs (in contrary to older presets).
For some tracks like 'Sophie Ellis Bextor - Murder on the Dancefloor' I cannot hear any difference between processed (exp010.sts) and bypassed (besides the volume difference of the intro).
The frequency structure (bass, mids, highs) is almost the same.

Generally:
I still think that MB 10k has too much to do.
For many music it works somehow.
But there will always be some music it fails, because the frequency range is too broad (and complicated for one band).
Author:  hvz [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
@michi95: So you think there's TOO MUCH highs, and Bojcha thinks there's not enough... However you're talking about normal processing, and Bojcha about FM. With my own new settings, I also hear nearly no difference between processed and not processed audio, except for the output volume.

About 12 bands: You might be right here. Actually, in the past I've made band 10 even (slightly) broader by request of someone who builds processing chains for radio stations, but I've never been too happy about that. (Exactly 1 octave per band is easier if you want to generate a 'flat' response).
Author:  soundmanfm [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Hi guys!
I read all the posts. Not lazy and downloaded from the site Orban these demos. Well, honestly I am very disappointed ... That hissing sound is heard in the intro does Orban 8600 honor. It is clear that this AGC. I spent the best test yet for me to have a version BETA510-1 Soundmanfm
Author:  Bojcha [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
If you talking about more bands i would like to see one band at exactly 65Hz. That's exactly between 40 and 90.
Some tracks have bass at this freq. and multiband is not controling this freq. good! In other words bass at 65Hz is too much open.
Author:  hvz [ Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
I was looking at one of the other todo's on my todo list and I found a small Loudness filter improvement that can replace the 'Relaxed clipping' filter:

2. Remove remaining spikes -> behavior is incorrect, it should partially maintain spikes that are really big (= difficult to get rid of). ---> Looking into this I found that I need to do something very different, and I also need to do that for normal (non-web based) processing:
2a. Add 'maximum mirror reflection' and make it configurable.
2b. Add an extra slower Hard Limit phase, or let the volume come up slower when the peaks get really loud, to avoid bass artifacts in xylophone sounds.
Author:  hvz [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
http://www.orban.com/products/radio/fm/ ... udioclips/
Eek! What a horrible sound! (Especially the 2nd track, it's distorting like hell! The highs in track 6 distort as well, and track 8 is pretty bad too. And track 7 has an AGC issue...)

The volume is roughly identical to that of Stereo Tool's "FM Transmitter (Europe, Stereo)" preset - with the output (Post Amp) set to 0.70.

They do contain more highs than Stereo Tool though. Here are Soft Limit values to mimic the same sound:
Band 1: 3.90
Band 2: 6.95
Band 3: 7.97
Band 4: 8.14
Band 5: 6.95
Band 6: 5.25
Band 7: 3.90
Band 8: 3.73
Band 9: 3.05
Band 10: 1.86
Author:  michi95 [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
@michi95: So you think there's TOO MUCH highs
No.
Using Bojcha's exp010.sts many tracks (modern productions) sound very close to original frequency structure (obvious we all agree about this).
Most older presets always add to every kind of music extra high frequency energy.

Bojcha's problem is (that's the way I understand him) that adding FM transmitter processing results in an unexpected big loss in high frequency.

Back to 12 band question:
As long as your only aim is to reach consistency in volume and loudness 10 bands are enough.
But with 12 bands you can use more aggressive settings for EQ, compression and clipping to nearly undo badly mastered original tracks.
Examples (for too aggressive snares):
Katrina And The Waves - Walking On Sunshine
Simple Minds - Don't You Forget About Me
Vanessa Paradis - Be My Baby
Beastie Boys - Fight For Your Right (To Party!)
etc.
Or try to listen to Lady Gaga at high volume with your headphones.
There are many productions with too much high frequency energy.

:arrow: To reach consistency in frequency spectrum 12 bands are much better than 10 bands.
Don't get me wrong:
If Hans adds 2 bands I won't ask two weeks later for 16 and later for 32 bands.
I think 12 bands is the sweet spot.
Though I have to agree with Bojcha that 65 Hz (sometimes it's close to 62 Hz) is also a very important frequency.
It's difficult (sometimes impossible) to design bass signature in the way you want with bands centered at 40Hz and 90Hz (what is good for some tracks is bad for others).
So why not 13 bands ?
Some might think: "13 bands, what's this ?".
But 13 bands would be really special :arrow: and will draw interest.

40 - 63.5 - 90 - 170 - 350 - 700 - 1.4K - 2.8K - 5.5K - 8K - 10K - 13K - 16K
:?:
Author:  soundmanfm [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Hi Hans. Simply changing the settings is not possible. :roll: Orban does not work as simply as you hear .. :( I checked the settings that are on the forum ... no no and no ... you need a different way. Can enhanzer? Intro U2 With Or Without You
:|
Author:  hvz [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
Quote:
Hi Hans. Simply changing the settings is not possible. :roll: Orban does not work as simply as you hear .. :( I checked the settings that are on the forum ... no no and no ... you need a different way. Can enhanzer? Intro U2 With Or Without You
:|
Still the AMOUNT of highs and lows (not the way the processing works, obviously) should be roughly identical. And I did indeed (as Bojcha already said) have to increase the highs a lot.

Or actually I should say, if I process those already processed tracks again with these settings, the difference is small.
Author:  hvz [ Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 5.02
About 13 bands: Previously I have tried to keep the sound in between bands at the same level as exactly inside a band. That worked, but caused annoying pumping effects.

If I add an extra band (for example at 65 kHz) I would have to fix that (otherwise there would again be places where the bass comes out too loud at - say - 50 Hz and 75 Hz).

Fortunately, if the bands get this small, the pumping effects should be gone. So if this does indeed work I should be able to fix 2 problems simultaneously.

Will check it - not for the next release, but soon afterwards. I can very well imagine that at least those extra high frequency bands can be very useful - most equalizers have sliders for 14 and 16 kHz separately, and there's of course a reason for that (you can clearly hear the difference between them, above a certain frequency the human ears are no longer linear, and until now I have ignored that fact).
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