Stereo Tool :: Preview...

i turn oFF Pre-Limiter. ...
much better but i use Hardware limiter in super soft mode .. which just level audio then goes in ST.
This is better for another one reason. because Pre-limiter have something with multiband and because pre-limiter not works as shuld now audio is much constant.
But Pre-imiter can help in some cases because it controls two low and high levels.
So if possible.. on very first input will be good some kind of leveler.. i supose to work not by peek but by RMS power of material. Then in Pre-Limiter.

About Final Limiter and loudnes: (latest beta)
i try new option "avoid distorsion" and set it at 120% Final limiter at 1.00 and loudness now have little more room. from 2.50 to 2.60. and i get a bit of softer sound.

- one minor bug .. if you open Loudness and Final Limiter window and minimize main ST window VU meter on pre limiter windows freezes.

yes, i forgot to say that if next louder song comes that pre limiter is slow but at the and it lows song., but problem is that louder song is a little louder and lower level song is a little lower after audio goes thru pre-limiter.

Solution1 = better.

I just realized: Because Loudness is set to a slightly lower value than before, my high frequency filter doesn't kick in in time. For High quality, it starts working at Loudness values above 2.20 at quality High, 3.00 at Medium. Which values were you using?

Also, my highs removal filter might work differently on "final limited" sound compared to not final limited sounds. I can reduce the default setting a bit to accomodate for that, if you got this effect at higher Loudness values than the ones I mentioned. (As I said before, I *love* loud highs, which might be the reason why I thought the sound had improved...)

Author:	hvz [ Mon May 18, 2009 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
Quote: i turn oFF Pre-Limiter. ... much better but i use Hardware limiter in super soft mode .. which just level audio then goes in ST. This is better for another one reason. because Pre-limiter have something with multiband and because pre-limiter not works as shuld now audio is much constant. But Pre-imiter can help in some cases because it controls two low and high levels. So if possible.. on very first input will be good some kind of leveler.. i supose to work not by peek but by RMS power of material. Then in Pre-Limiter. About Final Limiter and loudnes: (latest beta) i try new option "avoid distorsion" and set it at 120% Final limiter at 1.00 and loudness now have little more room. from 2.50 to 2.60. and i get a bit of softer sound. - one minor bug .. if you open Loudness and Final Limiter window and minimize main ST window VU meter on pre limiter windows freezes. Having read this I think I know what I should do with the pre limiter. The Pre Limiter is already close to a single band limiter, because the two bands are tied to each other (if loud bass is present, the highs are also reduced a lot). But there are 2 problems: 1. Both bands are limited based on the peak level instead of loudness/RMS type level. 2. A sudden loud peak (such as the one at the start of the 2nd song) will remain loud, because the filter responds slowly to volume changes and doesn't look ahead. Solution for 1: Use average level over a short time interval instead of peak level. That's close to the RMS level. Solution for 2: I think I have to add a 2nd look-ahead filter after the pre limiter to remove loud peaks. EDIT: I have just checked the volume of the first two songs, and the difference in volume is small. Only at the start there's a very loud peak - after that both reach the same volume. So I think I only need to solve problem 2 - which might not be as easy as it seemed because here I also need to use the RMS level... Will get back on this!

Author:	Bojcha [ Mon May 18, 2009 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
yes, i forgot to say that if next louder song comes that pre limiter is slow but at the and it lows song., but problem is that louder song is a little louder and lower level song is a little lower after audio goes thru pre-limiter. Solution1 = better.

Author:	hvz [ Tue May 19, 2009 12:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
Quote: yes, i forgot to say that if next louder song comes that pre limiter is slow but at the and it lows song., but problem is that louder song is a little louder and lower level song is a little lower after audio goes thru pre-limiter. Solution1 = better. The difference seems to be about 1-2 dB. Not that much - but apparently still too much. I have just managed to get the difference down to about 0.1 dB, but the volume is going up and down all the time which sounds extremely annoying. So no new version for tonight - I'll have to think this one through a bit more I guess...

Author:	hvz [ Tue May 19, 2009 1:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
Except one minor change: If you choose "Low CPU usage" in the Final Limiter panel and Loudness is turned on, Loudness is used for limiting.

Author:	hvz [ Tue May 19, 2009 1:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
Bojcha: I found out what I did wrong, I'll expect to have a version ready tomorrow morning where the left channel is processed using the RMS method (measured output volume difference between song 1 and 2 is less than 0.1 dB!), right channel unchanged... (no time anymore to fix that now). I'll let you know what I have something ready.

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Author:	Bojcha [ Tue May 19, 2009 2:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
np, no need to rush 2 hours i am listening music without pre limiter. And as i told much better but with my hardware peek limiter in leveling mode. But some low production songs that have more highs (or lows) needs this prelimiter. Maybe the difference is 2 or 3 db but that too much infect other processes like loudnes.. you set your pre limiter with avarage level song and set loudnes .. now comes higher level song (+~1db is enough) .. with easy can be distortion. I think if this can be fixed everything will be much different.

Author:	hvz [ Tue May 19, 2009 8:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
I've put something online. Same links as before, just remove the '2' (so not BETA2.exe but just BETA.exe). VST and command line versions have not been uploaded. Left channel is processed using something like the RMS level, right channel is not changed. Difference in volume (comparison between track 1 and 2) dropped from about 1.5 dB to below 0.1 dB. Although there's still a difference in the lows and highs. Peaks at sudden loud sounds are still there, I'll add something to get rid of those later. The only question I have now is: Is the pre limiter of the LEFT channel good enough now, if you ignore sudden loud bursts.

Author:	Bojcha [ Tue May 19, 2009 10:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
i will just say better .. so good direction. i'll listen all test again now .. i can compare it between channels.. but later ..

Author:	abdulok [ Tue May 19, 2009 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
Quote: I just realized: Because Loudness is set to a slightly lower value than before, my high frequency filter doesn't kick in in time. For High quality, it starts working at Loudness values above 2.20 at quality High, 3.00 at Medium. Which values were you using? Also, my highs removal filter might work differently on "final limited" sound compared to not final limited sounds. I can reduce the default setting a bit to accomodate for that, if you got this effect at higher Loudness values than the ones I mentioned. (As I said before, I love loud highs, which might be the reason why I thought the sound had improved...) Hi Hans, I was comparing the sound when (final limiter set to 1 & loudness was off) and when (final limiter set off & loudness set to 2) both at medium quality, i could hear a trace of high frequency on the latter set, and even when i try to increase loudness to 3 or even 4, there is still a trace of high frequency compared to the sound we get using the final limiter alone. As you said Hans, may be you like to hear music with high treble, like many people do. Regards, Abdul

Author:	hvz [ Tue May 19, 2009 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preview...
Abdulok: I've heard a few songs where the high frequencies don't sound too good (sound seems to be less clear, and less full). Maybe playing with the "Extra highs" slider of the Loudness filter can improve the sound quality - but it could also degrade (I'm not sure here, will try this later).

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