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Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=31304		 Page 13 of 20
Author:  hvz [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
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Update: BETA026 is available.
...
It's based on a new I/O engine
Can you share some insight into the new I/O engine?
It has a number of features that are new:
- Multiple Stereo Tool instances can use it at the same time
- Inputs can be shared between Stereo Tool instances
- An ASIO device can be shared between instances
- Synchronization between sound cards is now part of the framework, before it was specifically built everywhere where it was needed (and not for Input 2 for example, which is why that was missing)
- Backup/adding is now also part of the framework, and no longer handled by Stereo Tool

And things that are planned:
- An output can be sent to multiple sound cards
- We want to use this in plugin versions as well, which will mean that Input 1 would be the plugin input, and Input 2 could be a real sound card. This will make it possible to talk over the audio with The BIMP for example, with Stereo Tool running inside your playout software.
- Giving some input sound cards a delay. This will make it possible to have low latency behavior from some inputs to some outputs even when using multiple sound cards.
- Adding more than 2 input sound cards
- Adding sound cards with more than 2 channels, especially useful for The BIMP.

Not everything is completely supported yet, but we'll add things if they are needed. Most importantly at this point, streaming input and output are not yet supported, and on Linux, Jack is not yet supported.
Author:  Bojcha [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
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What difference do you see in input sync? It should have been the same.

I can create a 32-bit build just for testing this specific thing, but for multi-instance, a 32 bit version will run out of memory as soon as you add more than 1 extra instance. (The 64 bit version supports upto 100).
1. Sync kinda too much chasing buffer up and down, you can even see blue bar how goes up and down, while normal ST doing it in small movements.
2. I need one instance and only to test input2 if something is done there about overfilling input1 buffer.
Can you send me your exact settings so I can see what's going on? With the default settings I get adjustments of around 0.0001% or so, so nothing like what you're describing.
Vac1 input, vac2 output, 48kHz everything, no FM, 50-100ms buffer. Input Sync ON with relative adjust 0.10%
Is Input2 now in some sync with beta26? Anyway i put it on one transmitter site that has backup on input2, now i need to wait 2-3 hours..
Author:  hvz [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
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1. Sync kinda too much chasing buffer up and down, you can even see blue bar how goes up and down, while normal ST doing it in small movements.
2. I need one instance and only to test input2 if something is done there about overfilling input1 buffer.
Can you send me your exact settings so I can see what's going on? With the default settings I get adjustments of around 0.0001% or so, so nothing like what you're describing.
Vac1 input, vac2 output, 48kHz everything, no FM, 50-100ms buffer. Input Sync ON with relative adjust 0.10%
Is Input2 now in some sync with beta26? Anyway i put it on one transmitter site that has backup on input2, now i need to wait 2-3 hours..
Ah, I see what you mean now. The moment when we check how full the buffer is must be different... so you see the buffer jump (that can happen with the normal version as well, but it often doesn't), and due to that the M value changes quickly as well. I'll check what's wrong.
Author:  Bojcha [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
Nope, still buffer overfill on input1 when input2 is enabled.
Author:  NRG [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
Quote:
Update: BETA026 is available.

The biggest new thing is that there's a new ST-Enterprise build. ST-Enterprise is our multi-instance version of Stereo Tool.

It's based on a new I/O engine, which has a lot of benefits compared to the existing one (which we eventually want to migrate to the new engine as well, but that means replacing something that has been tested for several years - so we'll do that after we have confirmation that the new I/O engine doesn't break anything). Making changes in sound card settings now has less impact (often no impact) on other sound cards. And both inputs can now synchronize separately to the output sound card clock.

If you want to use ST-Enterprise to run multiple instances, you need special licenses, but the first instance works with a normal license. So as long as you use only one instance you can basically just replace the normal Stereo Tool by ST-Enterprise. (If you want it to use the same settings file, just rename the executable to StereoTool.exe).

Note: ST-Enterprise does not have support for streaming yet. Everything else should work the same way as in the normal stand alone versions of Stereo Tool.

BETA026 also fixes a crash in BETA024 and some earlier beta's if the R128 meter was enabled.

(No changes yet in the browser popup.. changing the installer is pretty difficult)

hans i don't see aes67 input in STenterprise
Author:  hvz [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
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Nope, still buffer overfill on input1 when input2 is enabled.
Slightly, I suppose? If both input 1 and input 2 need to be synchronized, and one of the two lags behind a bit or they need an adjustment in opposite directions, you'll see (at most a few pixels) of one of the input buffers turn 'gray' (dotted). If it's more than that, it might be because your maximum resampling speed is too low.

Say you have 2 inputs, both set to 48 kHz, but one runs at 47999, the other at 48001. Then after 1 second, the first input will have produced 47999 samples, the 2nd 48001. Stereo Tool needs samples from both so it will consume 47999. So the 2nd input in this case will have an overflow of 2 samples. After 2 seconds that's 4 etc. Sync will start to compensate for that but a small part of the difference will remain. So one buffer will be "overfull" - but it should stabilize at some point, and the difference should be pretty small.
Author:  hvz [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
Quote:
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Update: BETA026 is available.

The biggest new thing is that there's a new ST-Enterprise build. ST-Enterprise is our multi-instance version of Stereo Tool.

It's based on a new I/O engine, which has a lot of benefits compared to the existing one (which we eventually want to migrate to the new engine as well, but that means replacing something that has been tested for several years - so we'll do that after we have confirmation that the new I/O engine doesn't break anything). Making changes in sound card settings now has less impact (often no impact) on other sound cards. And both inputs can now synchronize separately to the output sound card clock.

If you want to use ST-Enterprise to run multiple instances, you need special licenses, but the first instance works with a normal license. So as long as you use only one instance you can basically just replace the normal Stereo Tool by ST-Enterprise. (If you want it to use the same settings file, just rename the executable to StereoTool.exe).

Note: ST-Enterprise does not have support for streaming yet. Everything else should work the same way as in the normal stand alone versions of Stereo Tool.

BETA026 also fixes a crash in BETA024 and some earlier beta's if the R128 meter was enabled.

(No changes yet in the browser popup.. changing the installer is pretty difficult)

hans i don't see aes67 input in STenterprise
I see that it wasn't enabled in the release build, it is now so the next build will have it.
Author:  NRG [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Update: BETA026 is available.

The biggest new thing is that there's a new ST-Enterprise build. ST-Enterprise is our multi-instance version of Stereo Tool.

It's based on a new I/O engine, which has a lot of benefits compared to the existing one (which we eventually want to migrate to the new engine as well, but that means replacing something that has been tested for several years - so we'll do that after we have confirmation that the new I/O engine doesn't break anything). Making changes in sound card settings now has less impact (often no impact) on other sound cards. And both inputs can now synchronize separately to the output sound card clock.

If you want to use ST-Enterprise to run multiple instances, you need special licenses, but the first instance works with a normal license. So as long as you use only one instance you can basically just replace the normal Stereo Tool by ST-Enterprise. (If you want it to use the same settings file, just rename the executable to StereoTool.exe).

Note: ST-Enterprise does not have support for streaming yet. Everything else should work the same way as in the normal stand alone versions of Stereo Tool.

BETA026 also fixes a crash in BETA024 and some earlier beta's if the R128 meter was enabled.

(No changes yet in the browser popup.. changing the installer is pretty difficult)

hans i don't see aes67 input in STenterprise
I see that it wasn't enabled in the release build, it is now so the next build will have it.
tnx
Author:  Bojcha [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
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Nope, still buffer overfill on input1 when input2 is enabled.
Slightly, I suppose? If both input 1 and input 2 need to be synchronized, and one of the two lags behind a bit or they need an adjustment in opposite directions, you'll see (at most a few pixels) of one of the input buffers turn 'gray' (dotted). If it's more than that, it might be because your maximum resampling speed is too low.

Say you have 2 inputs, both set to 48 kHz, but one runs at 47999, the other at 48001. Then after 1 second, the first input will have produced 47999 samples, the 2nd 48001. Stereo Tool needs samples from both so it will consume 47999. So the 2nd input in this case will have an overflow of 2 samples. After 2 seconds that's 4 etc. Sync will start to compensate for that but a small part of the difference will remain. So one buffer will be "overfull" - but it should stabilize at some point, and the difference should be pretty small.
Image

This is after 6 hours. Input and FM output goes asio (juli@), and input2 is VAC at 48kHz (tried 192, same). I also tried erlier without ASIO, but same thing occures.
So what i can do? I can change VAC clock, but i don't like that solution. Buffer overfill is so slow that some sync should anyway be capable to fix it.. idk.

Btw, on every PC i tested erlier, no metter what soundcard i use, always overfills input1 buffer. Never input2.
Author:  hvz [ Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 9.84 BETA
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Nope, still buffer overfill on input1 when input2 is enabled.
Slightly, I suppose? If both input 1 and input 2 need to be synchronized, and one of the two lags behind a bit or they need an adjustment in opposite directions, you'll see (at most a few pixels) of one of the input buffers turn 'gray' (dotted). If it's more than that, it might be because your maximum resampling speed is too low.

Say you have 2 inputs, both set to 48 kHz, but one runs at 47999, the other at 48001. Then after 1 second, the first input will have produced 47999 samples, the 2nd 48001. Stereo Tool needs samples from both so it will consume 47999. So the 2nd input in this case will have an overflow of 2 samples. After 2 seconds that's 4 etc. Sync will start to compensate for that but a small part of the difference will remain. So one buffer will be "overfull" - but it should stabilize at some point, and the difference should be pretty small.
Image

This is after 6 hours. Input and FM output goes asio (juli@), and input2 is VAC at 48kHz. I also tried erlier without ASIO, but same thing occures.
So what i can do? I can change VAC clock, but i don't like that solution. Buffer overfill is so slow that some sync should anyway be capable to fix it.. idk.
Ok, this doesn't look right. The FM buffer is > 50% full which should force Input 1 to be speeding up. And Input 1 has too many samples in its buffer which should force it to speed up even more. But it is in fact slowing down (the M value is below 1)! So the issue will get worse over time.

Edit: I looked in the code and I cannot explain this yet. Can you give me a bit more info?
1. How big is your FM output buffer, and does it indeed appear to be > 50% full??
2. What are the M and x and resampling values for input 2, and do you see a similar effect there?

(3. For Input 1: Since it could be moving up and down: Does the M value stay below 1?)

I'll run a test here with similar values, to reproduce it on my end. That will make it much easier to find and fix.
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