Stereo Tool :: Preset: "Unvail"

Some things i don't understand.
This is web preset. It's really important or i would not mark it like that. Yes you can play it on FM but for sure you will not be loudness-war winner. Also some other clipper settings need to be adjusted to better fit for FM. (streaming require limiting and FM is ok with clipping!). FOr howm listening only your ear is important.

Also i don't understand how you have good FM signal with pilot and rds at 96kHz!?
If you halve that, that is 48kHz and that's only enough for SSB MPX signal but for sure not for RDS. (57kHz).

I started to use PowerBass in last few versions to squeeze more bass into audio. However peek level is NOT changed!
You can try yourself, play 60Hz sine tone, for example, lower clipper to 0dB and measure peek level. Then turn off power bass - there will be almost no difference, in case of 40Hz with power bass it will be even lower peek level

Ok testing track "Indila - Ego"
Test is to measure avareage level at all bands - Original vs processed.
I took first bass kicks from track (wich because low BPM and slow attack ion first band gives loudest processed bass) and played into loop. Lowered clipper to -1.51dB to match ~ input and output bass level.

Here is source - 250 avarage level

And here same but processed

As you can see everything is prety much similar level

As usual, I always want to preserve bass.

Author:	Clipper [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
Bojcha, Excellent sound. Why is the Fake Stereo selected, I am unsure what this setting does when the channel delay is set to 0ms. C.

Author:	Bojcha [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
Quote: Bojcha, Excellent sound. Why is the Fake Stereo selected, I am unsure what this setting does when the channel delay is set to 0ms. C. oops, error Thanks!

Author:	Slawomir B. [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
My favourite In current (old) FM I modified: - turned off Fake Stereo (already noticed as far as I can see). - reduced bandwith down to 15 kHz (possibly pilot can also be turned down a percent or two). EDIT: And just to note - on some Realtek ALC codecs a strange artifacts occur when processing in 48 kHz internal sample rate (ST settings). Any other setting than that solves the problem. I use 96 kHz and that works regardless the output setting (so stereo encoding and RDS still work properly). When I set to 192 kHz I get excessive CPU usage. And we still wait for the final FM version In Web presets I think I've noticed strange things with bass on some tracks but I have to investigate this further. Will report later. EDIT2: OK, now i see it what's "wrong" with bass - I get excessive amounts of bass in L-R, when certain track is bass-rich in that area (check: Indila-Ego, for example). It's not that audible on all tracks, though.

Author:	Bojcha [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
Will check that with bass. thanks.

Author:	Slawomir B. [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
I want to point out that this effect I was talking about is not that obvious and not really unpleasant. It's only just like if there was significantly more bass in some tracks due to L-R low frequency content. For this reason the audio may appear inconsistent when highly variable material is processed. I've noticed that Power Bass may create very unpleasant effect in L-R area with low frequency enhancement (depending on the track), but I can see it's turned-off completely in your Unvail presets.

Stereo Tool https://forums.stereotool.com/

Preset: "Unvail" https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=5663	Page 2 of 4

Author:	Bojcha [ Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
Some things i don't understand. This is web preset. It's really important or i would not mark it like that. Yes you can play it on FM but for sure you will not be loudness-war winner. Also some other clipper settings need to be adjusted to better fit for FM. (streaming require limiting and FM is ok with clipping!). For home listening only your ears are important. Also i don't understand how you have good FM signal with pilot and rds at 96kHz!? If you halve that, that is 48kHz and that's only enough for SSB MPX signal but for sure not for RDS. (57kHz). I started to use PowerBass in last few versions to squeeze more bass into audio. However peek level is NOT changed! You can try yourself, play 60Hz sine tone, for example, lower clipper to 0dB and measure peek level. Then turn off power bass - there will be almost no difference, in case of 40Hz with power bass it will be even lower peek level Ok testing track "Indila - Ego" Test is to measure avareage level at all bands - Original vs processed. I took first bass kicks from track (wich because low BPM and slow attack ion first band gives loudest processed bass) and played into loop. Lowered clipper to -1.51dB to match ~ input and output bass level. Here is source - 250 avarage level And here same but processed As you can see everything is prety much similar level As usual, I always want to preserve bass.

Author:	Slawomir B. [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
Quote: Some things i don't understand. This is web preset. It's really important or i would not mark it like that. Yes you can play it on FM but for sure you will not be loudness-war winner. Also some other clipper settings need to be adjusted to better fit for FM. (streaming require limiting and FM is ok with clipping!). FOr howm listening only your ear is important. Also i don't understand how you have good FM signal with pilot and rds at 96kHz!? If you halve that, that is 48kHz and that's only enough for SSB MPX signal but for sure not for RDS. (57kHz). I started to use PowerBass in last few versions to squeeze more bass into audio. However peek level is NOT changed! You can try yourself, play 60Hz sine tone, for example, lower clipper to 0dB and measure peek level. Then turn off power bass - there will be almost no difference, in case of 40Hz with power bass it will be even lower peek level Ok testing track "Indila - Ego" Test is to measure avareage level at all bands - Original vs processed. I took first bass kicks from track (wich because low BPM and slow attack ion first band gives loudest processed bass) and played into loop. Lowered clipper to -1.51dB to match ~ input and output bass level. Here is source - 250 avarage level And here same but processed As you can see everything is prety much similar level As usual, I always want to preserve bass. OK - so from the beginning 1. I know it's a web preset In the FM part of one of my previous posts I mentioned old version of Unvail. 2. My audio codecs works like this: when I set Sample Rate at ST (Sound Card section) it has effect on the quality of sound but not on stereo or RDS coding (I know it sounds strange but that's the way it works) http://i.imgur.com/xG1SYVb.jpg. The crucial part is to set Speaker setting to 192 kHz (or VAC) in the system control panel (not ST) - it works that way on my Win7 x64 and all ALC codecs I have. So even though the ST sample rate is set 96 kHz (in the screen above), the real output sample rate is 192 kHz. When I set 192 kHz in ST, my CPU is melting and I get serious stuttering and buffer loss. When I set it to 48 kHz I get resampling artifacts. When I set it to 44.1 - The sound is good but I get some noise in the pilot area - strange and extremely nonintuitive, but that's the way it works for my system configuration with Realteks and Win7. 3. Do this graphs show L-R? (BTW I like the way you support or defend your theses)These graphs should represent L-R signal in order to notice what I meant. Anyway, even on them you can see that this processed sound has slightly different texture that affects (my) perceived loudness of the bass L-R parts - notice the 50-80Hz area boost in the processed sound (it is more audible than sub-50 Hz part, due to human ear frequency response). But what I really meant is that when you listen to variable material using this preset, there are some tracks that clearly stick out (but not as dramatically as you may have thought) due to their bass L-R content. And that's the way they sound unprocessed too, in comparison with other tracks. I have always been trying to mitigate these differences to make audition more smooth. Also, few years back I usually processed bass all the way in mono to avoid such phenomenon (which is sounds pretty bad in lo-bitrate scenario). Then you could make things wider without the risk that you get awful mumbling sound in the L-R part due to very low bitrate (since in these scenarios usually middle-side techniques are used for stereo reproduction, you have some headroom for codec when you cut out the bass from the sides). That's just my opinion of course. And last but not least, I already mentioned numerous times that this preset is actually my favourite, cause it sounds good and gentle on most of the material I've tested No argue on that! Actually no argue at all, just discussion, right? Regards, Slawomir

Author:	Bojcha [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
those graphs are L channel. And yes you see that 80Hz is louder at processed wich is good and exactly what i wanted. To make bass louder without changing peek level. Ok clear about that sample rate. 48kHz should actually work too! set cables to "format" not "range" maybe that will help. Those samplerate problems comes from w7! And i don't even want to start talk about that I just hate W7 when it comes to audio.

Author:	Slawomir B. [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
Actually there has been a lot of contradiction regarding L-R bass in audio processing, hasn't it? Anyway I edited my previous post regarding that matter, as I used to processed bass in mono to avoid some artifacts. Regards, SB P.S. Yes, Win7 is really a pain in the ass sometimes (these audio and threading curiosities).

Author:	Bojcha [ Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Preset: "Unvail"
Ah i want 2 tracks examples where one sticks out

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