Stereo Tool
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Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?t=4896		 Page 2 of 28
Author:  hvz [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
@bob53bob: I think it doesn't use multicore right now (and I'm not too sure if adding it will help a lot). Only advice I can give for now is to lower some quality or strictness settings somewhere... :( I haven't optimized for performance yet because I really didn't know yet what I was doing when I added this filter. Once it sounds good I'll see if I can improve it.

@bob: Setting Extreme Tweaker mode doesn't change the sound, it just makes this filter show up correctly - I've fixed it and in the next beta you don't need to do this anymore. You hear no effect from Natural Dynamics? (That's very well possible depending on the type of audio that you play).
Author:  Brian [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
SB ND = Single-Band Natural Dynamics ?

As far as the other option, when enabling it, the good news is that it no longer causes skipping and stuttering, so that's a major improvement. It does push CPU usage up to 80-90, so any further improvement would be appreciated. I'm guessing I'll still have this old system for 3-9 months...
Author:  hvz [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
That SB ND thing is there for testing only, and is only visible if you enable the ND hack. (I just realized that I can just as well remove it and set the multiband version to 1 band).

CPU load should be a bit above that of the multiband compressor with the same number of bands; I hope to be able to reduce it a bit. I might need to make some small changes to the processing to achieve good performance, that's why I want it to work properly first, so when I make those changes I can check if they don't break anything.
Author:  hvz [ Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
BETA725-002:
Windows stand alone: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 25-002.exe
Winamp DSP: http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_ ... 25-002.exe

- Extreme Tweaker mode no longer needed
- Made rise and fall of boost smooth, to avoid harsh sounds when boosting starts (or ends).
- Maybe some very small performance improvement (I added some compiler hints but I don't know if they have much effect).
Author:  Brian [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
No performance change for me, but I didn't expect there to be... I also changed the override back to 0 and the SB ND went away like you said.

So far, it works. I'm still trying to see if it is noticable enough for the CPU load.

Did you ever compare what you're doing to what Creative's "Crystalizer" does? I believe Crystalizer is a compander.
Author:  JesseG [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
Quote:
Did you ever compare what you're doing to what Creative's "Crystalizer" does? I believe Crystalizer is a compander.
No offense to whoever made that effect, but it's not even worth comparing to this. :) Maybe your settings afterward are destroying the dynamics, and/or your monitoring setup needs a quantum leap. It's night & day.
Author:  Brian [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
Quote:
Quote:
Did you ever compare what you're doing to what Creative's "Crystalizer" does? I believe Crystalizer is a compander.
No offense to whoever made that effect, but it's not even worth comparing to this. :) Maybe your settings afterward are destroying the dynamics, and/or your monitoring setup needs a quantum leap. It's night & day.
None taken. You have your preference. I have my preference, but mine also has a constraint based on the usability of my computer for other things. That constraint will go away (hopefully) in a few months, when I have enough money saved to be able to get a new system, or sooner - by taking out a loan - if I decide I need to get something so that I can get up to speed quicker with using Windows 7. Until then, the CPU load is a very large factor in my determination of "is it worth it, TO ME". I should have made that a bit more clear before.

That said though, I recognize that there is a very, very, very large anti-Creative Labs opinion out there, mostly from broadcasters and "audiophiles", which is in quotes because I've heard a lot of stuff that sounds bad that some self-proclaimed "audiophile" thinks is gee-whiz-bang-terrific. It should be noted that I'm not a broadcaster, per se, although I do have enough background to dabble and become at least moderately proficient if I needed to. Again, it is all about preferences.

Now, with all of that said, it is possible that I'll change my opinion as to if it is worth it for the additional load. I have only had an opportunity to listen very briefly.
Author:  JesseG [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
I didn't say no offense to you.

As far as preference, whatever. I don't care about anyone's preference, not even mine. As far as comparing them on a purely technical objective level, it's not worth comparing. Maybe you're used to hearing the blatantly obvious artifacts (which can easily be objectively measured) from it, which you ~ don't hear from Natural Dynamics (because it has things in it that deliberately prevent that). I'm sure Hans can prove mathematically how he's preventing Natural Dynamics from being an effect that has a sound other than what it should do to improve dynamics & detail without audible artifacts. But that would mean revealing secrets. hehe :) Give it some time, and turn off all of the soundcard effects completely (except any speaker/headphone correction EQ of course) so the transparency of your audio path is being compromised as little as possible. You might also try turning off everything except for Declipper and Natural Dynamics, especially if you're going to try to tune it at all. I'll finish by saying that tuning this kind of processing is a completely new headspace to be in, and much more difficult because even bad settings can end up making something sound better. It took me a few months to adjust myself to doing it.
Author:  Brian [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
Quote:
Give it some time, and turn off all of the soundcard effects completely (except any speaker/headphone correction EQ of course) so the transparency of your audio path is being compromised as little as possible. You might also try turning off everything except for Declipper and Natural Dynamics, especially if you're going to try to tune it at all. I'll finish by saying that tuning this kind of processing is a completely new headspace to be in, and much more difficult because even bad settings can end up making something sound better. It took me a few months to adjust myself to doing it.
I tried turning off Crystalizer, but when I do that, attempting to just use ND, I lose quite a bit of bass. That could be something that can be addressed by settings changes. Dunno. Crystalizer does do some things to the sound, but I don't know if they are "artifacts" or not. As near as I have been able to figure, enabling Crystalizer changes the sound *AND* gives about a 3dB boost. Ever since I figured that out months ago, to offset I've added in a flat EQ with a -3dB attenuation, so theoretically (at least by my understanding / logic), I should only be getting the dynamics changes it purports to give. And yes, I did remember to turn off the EQ along with Crystalizer so that I didn't have a cut of 3dB.

My main point for the moment with Natural Dynamics is that at 7 bands, it's not choking my system completely, but it would be nice if the performance could be improved a bit more. The thing is, Crystalizer is able to use the X-Fi processor, so it doesn't increase my CPU load, while Natural Dynamics does. That's just my specific circumstance, that would be alleviated if I could get a new system, which, due to the delay of AMD Kaveri, is probably going to be a Haswell i3 or i5, unless there's a really good deal on Ivy Bridge components.
Author:  JesseG [ Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Stereo Tool 7.25 BETA
Quote:
That's just my specific circumstance, that would be alleviated if I could get a new system, which, due to the delay of AMD Kaveri, is probably going to be a Haswell i3 or i5, unless there's a really good deal on Ivy Bridge components.
Looking at the price I paid for my i7 860, and what's out there now at the same price, is literally DOUBLE the speed, and my CPU isn't a slouch. :) There is price drops happening on Ivy Bridge right now because Haswell is already out, but the Haswell CPUs are worth the price, and Ivy Bridge is getting moved into the budget CPU models like Pentium, Centrino, and eventually Celeron. I'm probably due for a new system in 2015. :) But this one will be good for 99% of the stuff I do for probably just about indefinitely (even after I'm forced to put Ubuntu on it, because Windows 7 won't be supported forever, and I don't like where MS is going with "desktop" anymore)
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