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 Post subject: Songs lack dynamic range
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2023 8:42 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:38 pm
Posts: 22
Hello Everyone

I have been using Stereo Tool for my stream for a while now, but I noticed something unpleasant.

I am still using Bojcha's Unveil preset, but this time with Natural Dynamics on, True Bass is still on. The sound is great and I absolutely love the bass! Great for the songs I play! But, I noticed that songs that have a fade out at the end or a quiet portion at the beginning get all squashed to the same level. For example, as the song fades out, Stereo Tool keeps increasing the audio in response to that and when my playout program cues the next song, there is an abrupt transition, almost like there was no fade at all in the original song. A similar problem occurs in songs with a quiet start. Everything gets increased to the same level no matter how quiet it is. What should I do to remedy this problem? Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 12:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 4225
Quote:
Hello Everyone

I have been using Stereo Tool for my stream for a while now, but I noticed something unpleasant.

I am still using Bojcha's Unveil preset, but this time with Natural Dynamics on, True Bass is still on. The sound is great and I absolutely love the bass! Great for the songs I play! But, I noticed that songs that have a fade out at the end or a quiet portion at the beginning get all squashed to the same level. For example, as the song fades out, Stereo Tool keeps increasing the audio in response to that and when my playout program cues the next song, there is an abrupt transition, almost like there was no fade at all in the original song. A similar problem occurs in songs with a quiet start. Everything gets increased to the same level no matter how quiet it is. What should I do to remedy this problem? Thanks!
Classsic AGC problems. Need protection after AGC, in later preset i started to look more into that. Try "Average Joe" in latest beta, and if it's ok with you i can send you latest version.

_________________
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:38 pm
Posts: 22
Quote:
Quote:
Hello Everyone

I have been using Stereo Tool for my stream for a while now, but I noticed something unpleasant.

I am still using Bojcha's Unveil preset, but this time with Natural Dynamics on, True Bass is still on. The sound is great and I absolutely love the bass! Great for the songs I play! But, I noticed that songs that have a fade out at the end or a quiet portion at the beginning get all squashed to the same level. For example, as the song fades out, Stereo Tool keeps increasing the audio in response to that and when my playout program cues the next song, there is an abrupt transition, almost like there was no fade at all in the original song. A similar problem occurs in songs with a quiet start. Everything gets increased to the same level no matter how quiet it is. What should I do to remedy this problem? Thanks!
Classsic AGC problems. Need protection after AGC, in later preset i started to look more into that. Try "Average Joe" in latest beta, and if it's ok with you i can send you latest version.
Hello and thank you for responding!

I unfortunately can't download the newest Stereo Tool release right now, but you can send me the latest version of the preset and I will try it out.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2023 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:44 pm
Posts: 943
Location: Texas, USA
Quote:
Quote:
Classsic AGC problems. Need protection after AGC, in later preset i started to look more into that. Try "Average Joe" in latest beta, and if it's ok with you i can send you latest version.
Hello and thank you for responding!

I unfortunately can't download the newest Stereo Tool release right now, but you can send me the latest version of the preset and I will try it out.
Hi, I exported and uploaded the Average Joe preset found in the latest beta (10.11-001) here https://www.mediafire.com/file/whygg14x ... 1.sts/file

I can't upload the preset to this subforum directly, and I don't feel comfortable creating a thread in the preset sharing subforum because it's not my preset.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2023 12:16 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:19 pm
Posts: 43
69207- I have not heard the preset, but generally speaking the effect you hear is normal when large amounts of gain reduction are used, see # 3 below.

Thoughts-

1. Is your source material processed or leveled, prior to Stereo Tool? This could be the source files you obtained of your music content. I am not talking about the production of the songs themselves by the artist or producer, I mean what might have happened along the way to you.

2. Specifically, does your automation playout software, sound card or media player have a built-in compressor, limiter, or leveler that should be turned off?
Did someone give you the sound files, and they may have applied audio processing to them?

3. If the Stereo Tool preset uses the AGC, what is the average/median amount of gain reduction (aka dB compression)?
Some users may choose minimum amount of AGC gain reduction needed to level out incoming content prior to multiband processing and whatever comes next. This could be 10 dB average gain reduction.

4. Try using a lower compression ratio on the AGC such as 4 to 1 or even 2 to 1

5. You mention natural dynamics module. Is it possible it has been adjusted to act as an expander over a large scale? Some users may adjust this module to be subtle.

6. Is it possible a noise reduction or low-level boost module has been inadvertently turned on?
Although you should not be using low-level boost (based on what you said), my view is low-level boost is useful and should NOT be removed from the Stereo Tool product.

7. Let's say you are doing about 15 dB of gain reduction in the AGC, 15 dB in multiband one, 10 dB in multiband two and 8 dB in the broadband limiter.
You bet you will have "suck up" and music will not fade out (unless this has been mitigated by gating).

Go easy on the gain reduction...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:06 pm 

Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 3:17 pm
Posts: 65
made a video to show you how it can be done regarding your problems with the AGC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz0u5HJu_E4


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:38 pm
Posts: 22
Hello

I am very sorry for not responding for a long time. I was extremely busy this week and I just didn't have the time to check the forum. Thank you for your help everyone!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:45 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:38 pm
Posts: 22
Quote:
69207- I have not heard the preset, but generally speaking the effect you hear is normal when large amounts of gain reduction are used, see # 3 below.

Thoughts-

1. Is your source material processed or leveled, prior to Stereo Tool? This could be the source files you obtained of your music content. I am not talking about the production of the songs themselves by the artist or producer, I mean what might have happened along the way to you.

2. Specifically, does your automation playout software, sound card or media player have a built-in compressor, limiter, or leveler that should be turned off?
Did someone give you the sound files, and they may have applied audio processing to them?

3. If the Stereo Tool preset uses the AGC, what is the average/median amount of gain reduction (aka dB compression)?
Some users may choose minimum amount of AGC gain reduction needed to level out incoming content prior to multiband processing and whatever comes next. This could be 10 dB average gain reduction.

4. Try using a lower compression ratio on the AGC such as 4 to 1 or even 2 to 1

5. You mention natural dynamics module. Is it possible it has been adjusted to act as an expander over a large scale? Some users may adjust this module to be subtle.

6. Is it possible a noise reduction or low-level boost module has been inadvertently turned on?
Although you should not be using low-level boost (based on what you said), my view is low-level boost is useful and should NOT be removed from the Stereo Tool product.

7. Let's say you are doing about 15 dB of gain reduction in the AGC, 15 dB in multiband one, 10 dB in multiband two and 8 dB in the broadband limiter.
You bet you will have "suck up" and music will not fade out (unless this has been mitigated by gating).

Go easy on the gain reduction...
Hello

The source material is not compressed or processed in any way prior to being processed in Stereo Tool. The audio files are ripped by me from official CDs that I own and then directly transferred to the computer. I don't process them in any way. My automation software does not have those features turned on.

The average amount of gain reduction on the AGC is 15dB. Multiband 1 is 15db. Multiband 2 is turned off. The Multiband has very high ratios of 8:1. AGC has INF ratio (I just noticed that, wow.) The same problem happens even with natural dynamics off. By low level boost I assume you mean the True Bass module, yes that is on as it gives me nice bass that is suitable for the songs I play.

Thank you for your help! I will try these suggestions as soon as possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:38 pm
Posts: 22
1


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2023 6:21 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2022 8:35 pm
Posts: 6
I have it configured like this and it seems to be more transparent.
Image


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