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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 885
Quote:
Does noone get these interrupts while music playing like me? Am i really the only one? Or maybe you all dont use Winamp?
Most likely that is the CPU stalling, like what I'm seeing. What is your CPU?

@Hans - Yes, turning off transients helps, but as best as I can tell, Creative Labs' Crystalizer (ships with X-Fi cards) is doing just as good or better a job with far, far, far, far, far, less load. Maybe they are able to do hardware level processing, but I'm just telling you what's happening here...


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:59 pm 
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@eldoradofm: Even if I made an extra output it would HAVE to be 192 kHz to avoid getting issues with different sample rates. Glad you found another solution - alternatively you could also just record at 192 kHz.

@eldoradofm: 3t/3T 3s/3S: Woops. Should be fixed now (just had to add check for 's' or 'S').

@Vortan: Cross-fader... Hm... Would have nothing at all to do with Stereo Tool. And if you want to be able to run processing afterwards, you would need a cross fading input plugin.

@Brian: Vortan's issue was something else... I think the CPU load can be reduced a lot when I know what to make exactly (depends a lot on whether there's interaction between channels, if not the CPU load can be made LOWER than that of Multiband).


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:20 pm
Posts: 149
Quote:
This "boosting" of some of sounds are good for hard compressed/limited tracks. But what about good old dynamic tracks with already good matering/production? There, any "boosting" is not needed (?)
Undo is completely program dependent. So yes, if you feed it already dynamic audio, it will do little expansion. You will still find that not very much audio is actually very dynamic across the entire spectrum all at once, so there will usually be a little bit somewhere. But yes, it's program dependent. That's where its improvement to consistency comes from.

Quote:
I did hear a lot of them on the Breakaway forum (those were fed through Undo, and also through the old - SeeDeclip - declipper).
Part of that was SeeDeClip, and part was my settings being over-aggressive for the current state of several components of Undo which have also been improved a lot since. So even more aggressive expansion can happen much safer now. :)

Quote:
Also, at least this is my impression, even songs that have normal dynamics seem to sound better if I boost them. Which surprised me a lot.
I know, isn't it awesome how it brings out the details? When you make it more program dependent, it'll shock you even more because those details will seem to always be brought to the level where the musician *should* have had them, had they played perfectly in unison to the rest of the band. That's the best way I can explain it for now, since it's even more unbelievably... a new idea in dynamics processing for consistency. Precisely controlled program dependent expansion. Who knew? :D

Quote:
I do not agree that already dynamic tracks are boosted less and high comrpessed tracks are boosted more. I think it's more vice-versa.
But, we can talk about that after implementig adaptation-to-input-level. So ignore my comment.
Actually... to make it completely level independent, you need 3 things. You need average level of a band, you need peak level of a band, and you need the density of a band. Getting the peak level and density level decently close isn't too difficult. Getting it spot on is where psycho-acoustics must be used.

Quote:
So here's an idea: What if I feed the output of Natural Dynamics through an extra Multiband filter that limits the sound at the original input level. Then all the mentioned issues - way too loud S sounds, loud voices etc. - would be gone, and the original frequency content, at least that of the loudest sounds, would be restored.
That would help the AGC for sure. But the action would have to be slower than the action the multiband would ever have. So you're talking about adding a lot of delay. (i haven't checked ST delay ever, it might already be a non issue to add more?) No matter what, you wouldn't want such an effect to become audible.

My idea is to make it part of the multiband crossover, and then use the delay made up to do your natural Dynamics compensation... when it makes sense. Some songs are missing dynamics where they are also missing average loudness, and in those cases the changed spectral balance would be beneficial regardless of what sound someone is trying to get from their multiband & clipper.


Last edited by JesseG on Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:22 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:08 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 885
Quote:
@Brian: Vortan's issue was something else... I think the CPU load can be reduced a lot when I know what to make exactly (depends a lot on whether there's interaction between channels, if not the CPU load can be made LOWER than that of Multiband).
Odd, considering I also had that clear buffer setting enabled, and noticed no issues...

One other thing that has happened somewhere along the way is the "Screen updates" setting has no effect anymore, at least not for the DSP version.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:20 pm
Posts: 149
Quote:
No, I was typing on my phone, and apparently it didn't know the word 'cpu' and replaced it by 'coy' :roll:
O is next to P, Y is next to U. Your lazy-ass fat fingers just pressed the wrong part of the screen.

haha j/k ofc. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 4231
So, that's it .. program-dependent feature


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:07 am 

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 11:26 pm
Posts: 547
@Hans i changed monitor and now i also notice the background color for the scopes isn't black.
Could you change it from gray to black in next release like Bojcha also asked some time ago?


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:37 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 11425
Quote:
One other thing that has happened somewhere along the way is the "Screen updates" setting has no effect anymore, at least not for the DSP version.
Hm, seems to work fine here. What happens at your end? Always fast, always slow, ...?


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:27 am 
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BETA054:
Still BETA052A based.

- Declipping filter: Fixed low latency behavior
- Hard Limit and Loudness now by default use oversampling (new checkbox, right top of the window). This increases the CPU load but it should help a lot to avoid inter-sample clipping on certain sound cards, CD players etc.
- Declipping filter: Detection at lower input levels should now be as accurate as at normal input level (sensitivity boost of x2 or x4 is possible, chosen automatically).
- "Test Right Channel" in "FM Transmitter Calibration" failure reported by Bojcha should work again
- RDS issue reported here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3703&p=11524#p11524 is partially solved, 3T and 3S are now also understood.
- Turned 'do not allow restored samples to be lower than original clipped samples' on again, because it has only limited (bad) effect on the reconstruction of clipped samples, but a lot more impact on samples that are incorrectly marked as clipped.

From the previous beta (still valid):
The CPU load is also pretty high because I'm calculating 32 different tilt levels to find the best match (so automatic tilt detection works, but it needs serious optimization).

New slider: "Declipping margin" - if you set this to 75%, everything above 75% of the maximum level is considered to be potentially clipped.

Changed slider: "Never consider samples to be clipped if they are lower than:" - rule out soft sounds, whatever they look like, they are not clipped.



Winamp DSP plugin: http://www.stereotool.com/download/dsp_ ... 20-054.exe
Stand alone version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 20-054.exe
VST version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 20-054.dll
VST version (No SSE2): http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 20-054.dll
Command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... 20-054.exe
Linux command line version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA620-054 NOT AVAILABLE
Linux GUI version: http://www.stereotool.com/download/ster ... ETA620-054 NOT AVAILABLE

TODO:
- Fix loading changed multiband frequencies
- Add buffer and filter for SCA output (SCA1 ok, SCA2 ok)
- Finish AGC improvement - make mono value configurable (replace checkbox by slider) 1 hour --> NO, not needed - anything else needed? -> NO
- Fix Punch
- Check what to do with new filters (such as bass AGC) - keep them, remove them, change them? --> KEEP
- Save new BASS_AGC setting in VST mode
- Loudness: Annoying cracking sound in bass. Slightly present in 5.00, worse in 6.00, maybe even worse in 6.10. Only when bass is too loud. Much worse than in Final Limiter (at same input level!) - so this clearly indicates a bug. Most likely cause: The filter that was added to remove bass artifacts....... :shock: - No, it's the louder bass. But it can be fixed by changing some settings. Default settings updated, and behavior for 'not Very strict' improved. Also Deep bass boost and Very deep bass protection are enabled for latency 512 now.
- Fix crash at program close
- Fix VST plugin version (does not run)
- Dynamically drop 'Allow louder highs, even if it causes vibrations' to 0 when bass filter suspects noticeable voice vibrations. 1-2 hours
- Reduce Loudness CPU load days?
- Check and remove static variables
- Finish new de-essing filter (check what to do with the settings, remove at least some!) 1 day
- Convert Multiband input to MONO, then use arrays [2][4096] --> should give speedup. - FAILED
- Natural Dynamics: Fix or remove transient boost
- Natural Dynamics: Add expected + strength slider per band
- Finish declipping filter (clipping level detection + level reduction in dB). 1. Figure out why removal of unwanted frequencies causes flat lines at high quality setting with small overlap. This causes distortion, with this fixed repairs are MUCH better. 2. Fix MP3 correction, automatically scale down when this deteriorates the sound. --> TOP part fails!
- Declipping filter: Fix low latency behavior
- Always oversample clipping (configurable)
- Declipping filter: Change detection at lower input levels.
- "Test Right Channel" in "FM Transmitter Calibration" does not work since v6.10 (standalone) (bojcha)
- Declipper window close function - check! - Seems ok
- Scopes black background?
- Add AGC start level
- RDS issue reported here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3703&p=11524#p11524 partially solved
- Natural Dynamics: Smooth out different bands more to reduce low-bitrate-MP3-like sounds.
- Natural Dynamics: Optimize situation with no interaction between bands for performance.
- Declipping filter: Optimize tilt detection for performance
- Declipping filter: Optimize peak matching for performance
- Update presets? (BASS_AGC etc.) 1 day
- Finish blind interface
- Channels L/R swap in stand alone version when changing filtering/quality (?) (eldoradofm)
- Move pre-emphasis to end of processing 1 day
- Save all new settings, also through VST interface
- Change version number 1 hour
- Release 1 hour
- Add lowpass filter for stereo signal (will cause a lot of extra latency!) - it might be possible to avoid this latency using a Hilbert transform
- Add smarter clipping detection. Maybe something much simpler suffices: Current clipping detection with threshold + flat line detection
- Declipping filter: Automatically override the 3 clipping level sliders if the clipping level is detected very clearly (clear thin spike in sample value histogram). - NONSENSE, this is already done by the histogram function. But it can be made a BIT better - I think - by automatically LOWERING the 'always clipped' slider if a lot of data is present at the highest few bins (but care is needed for DBN - Jack is Back like tracks)


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 6.10
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:01 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 885
Quote:
Quote:
One other thing that has happened somewhere along the way is the "Screen updates" setting has no effect anymore, at least not for the DSP version.
Hm, seems to work fine here. What happens at your end? Always fast, always slow, ...?
It was always fast, but with BETA54, which, btw, you put up links to 53, so I manually got 54...

...but anyway, with 54, I can get it to slow down / stop, but sometimes there is a lag involved with it responding. So far I think it's caused by choosing to listen to the DIFF of Natural Dynamics, but I'm not sure. The behavior is very inconsistent. It's only sometimes that it acts up.

Edit: More testing and yeah, I have no idea. Sometimes it happens just playing a track. The settings are changed, but sometimes it requires clicking on the waveform display area to make the settings "take".

One other "sometimes" thing is that for the past several betas, I will sometimes get a lingering StereoTool window, usually saying it's the Declipping window, that sits on the taskbar and will close Winamp if I right click it and select Close. I believe this only happens when I max out the CPU by enabling both the declipper and natural dynamics.

These things are problematic for me, yield little benefit, and I seem to be the only person coming forth with them. I know I'm not crazy, so I'll make a stab or two at replicating, but I haven't the energy to be told it doesn't exist or that I should get a new computer. Yes, the new computer will probably make the issues "disappear", but they're really still there, just hidden until such time as the features outgrow another CPU cache level.


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