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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:09 pm 
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To see what is difference in MB limiters, Turn ON just MB and Clipper play 50Hz sine tone, make limiter in that band to attenuate atleast ~6db set limiter speed to 0.1ms (lowest) you should have HARD clipping wich is normal since speed is 0.1ms, but you will not. Then press "hear" in MB, and now clipping is there and peek level is maintained always.
Oh. Yes, I see it now. Weird that that does not appear to happen at all with music.

This is not trivial to fix... I'll have a listen tomorrow to see if it actually sounds better with Hear (but I assume you already did that?)
It is better since limiter on 'hear' normaly maintain peek level, how it should be, where you set it (thresh). When it's not on 'hear' (how you should normally use it in preset), peek level is all over the place.
Well, this is where things get weird. When I tested it on music, the difference was very small - the biggest difference that I saw over 2 minutes of audio with 10 dB of limiting was maybe 0.2 dB. On this sine wave test, the difference was massive - but just a sine wave won't cause distortion later in the chain because there's nothing to distort. The bass itself isn't louder than it would have been without limiting, even though the peak level is higher.

So this leaves 2 questions:
- Ignoring what you see in peak level, what sounds better? The sine wave itself won't sound louder without Hear, but it will have fewer harmonics. Which could very well be a good thing?
- Possible issue: What happens with a sine wave and highs and nothing in between? Because I expect a sine wave with an empty area a few hundred Hz above it and audio above that to act this same way.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:28 pm 
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Oh. Yes, I see it now. Weird that that does not appear to happen at all with music.

This is not trivial to fix... I'll have a listen tomorrow to see if it actually sounds better with Hear (but I assume you already did that?)
It is better since limiter on 'hear' normaly maintain peek level, how it should be, where you set it (thresh). When it's not on 'hear' (how you should normally use it in preset), peek level is all over the place.
Well, this is where things get weird. When I tested it on music, the difference was very small - the biggest difference that I saw over 2 minutes of audio with 10 dB of limiting was maybe 0.2 dB. On this sine wave test, the difference was massive - but just a sine wave won't cause distortion later in the chain because there's nothing to distort. The bass itself isn't louder than it would have been without limiting, even though the peak level is higher.

So this leaves 2 questions:
- Ignoring what you see in peak level, what sounds better? The sine wave itself won't sound louder without Hear, but it will have fewer harmonics. Which could very well be a good thing?
- Possible issue: What happens with a sine wave and highs and nothing in between? Because I expect a sine wave with an empty area a few hundred Hz above it and audio above that to act this same way.
All i expect from limiter is to peek level at value where i set it. It's not much about sound as maintainig peek level for rest of chain. For example i want to add Bass clipper after that MB, i usually protect that clipper from MB so it will always maintain same amout of clipping. But if limiter with sudden louder input translate that to bigger peek level then my clipper is done.
Just try same settings and rise input, pre-amp or MB drive, it will easily pass adjusted threshold peek level, like it's not Inf:1! and "Normal-Infinite ratio" mode for limiters should be that, inf:1. It happens in both cases tho, but less with "hear". For comparation, SB is working just fine.
To answer question "hear" sounds better, since it's how it's intended to work.
And btw, same difference is with compressors too.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:31 am 
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Pre-Limiter: To use it as you describe, we might need something to allow you to configure how loud each frequency area is allowed to get. Tom was talking about the same thing, we'll take this into consideration.
As i said, isn't just SC PEQ elegant and nice solution? :)
Trick is that i would first use it only on highs, probably spent few days to make some shape in eq for highs, also to watch to nicely fit to clipper and it's highs control. And 256 and up bands are nice for that.
However even if i want to use it on bass, 256bands are not good, for bass would be needed 64 or less bands, and for mids something in the middle. Anyway i would be happy even with just SC-PEQ.
It will be just like super advanced de-esser.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:52 am 

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I assume you're talking about the old web interface? I've added it to the todo list. The interface code has been rewritten and it doesn't do exactly the same as before anymore - but the JavaScript code for the old web interface has not been updated yet.

Yep. The topic for the new V10 version has beta 44 as the newest, and the interface broke in between 9.91 beta 50 and 58.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:33 pm 
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Yep. The topic for the new V10 version has beta 44 as the newest, and the interface broke in between 9.91 beta 50 and 58.
That's just the text. If you mouseover, it's actually 053 rn.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:20 pm 
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Most of the old webinterface is running again (parametric EQ drawing doesn't work), for now at least. At some point we're going to have to completely remove it, because supporting it costs time. But that "some point" will likely be the same moment when we remove the old native interface. I'll run a build tonight.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:24 pm 
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Pre-Limiter: To use it as you describe, we might need something to allow you to configure how loud each frequency area is allowed to get. Tom was talking about the same thing, we'll take this into consideration.
As i said, isn't just SC PEQ elegant and nice solution? :)
Trick is that i would first use it only on highs, probably spent few days to make some shape in eq for highs, also to watch to nicely fit to clipper and it's highs control. And 256 and up bands are nice for that.
However even if i want to use it on bass, 256bands are not good, for bass would be needed 64 or less bands, and for mids something in the middle. Anyway i would be happy even with just SC-PEQ.
It will be just like super advanced de-esser.
That's what we'll probably do if we do this. However, I think that we might want to have more in-between-bands control, so if a few bands that are next to each other are all loud, we probably want to lower them even if they don't reach the threshold. That will also make having too many bands less of an issue. We could also somehow use this with a ratio, to create a compressor-like thing which acts without attack and release speeds and justs adds density, and is guaranteed to work without pumping or gain riding.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:30 pm 

Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:09 am
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Has anyone else having trouble with the GUI crashing when turning off the old multiband compressor?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 11:53 pm 
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Has anyone else having trouble with the GUI crashing when turning off the old multiband compressor?
Just tried it, didn't see anything weird. Can you give some more details? What do you do exactly, and happens exactly? (And I assume this is in the old GUI?)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:56 am 

Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:09 am
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Update I just deleted the ini file re-imported my preset and now things seem to work fine.

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