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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:02 pm 

Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 6:59 pm
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Hans, the High frequency tilt correction under "FM sound card" is broken in the beta.
Yes, that should be fixed in the next build (BETA009, which I'm posting now).
Thank you. How do I test the new compsoite clipper?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:51 pm 
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OK, gui is back on this specific PC. Now i see this "test" and "bad',. What is it exactly?
That's the two different things I found that responded to 80/220 which possibly (probably?) shouldn't. BAD! would be bad if it helps, so if it does something is wrong. Keep them on for old behavior, off for new (test) behavior. (Sorry, they were called "Legacy" before but I changed them in the last moment and didn't realize how confusing that would be).
ok, now i bearly noticing any difference. Both 'test' and 'bad' is slightly worse distortion when ON. But with HPF ON, i would leave 'test' ON.
btw, check pm.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:19 pm 
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OK, gui is back on this specific PC. Now i see this "test" and "bad',. What is it exactly?
That's the two different things I found that responded to 80/220 which possibly (probably?) shouldn't. BAD! would be bad if it helps, so if it does something is wrong. Keep them on for old behavior, off for new (test) behavior. (Sorry, they were called "Legacy" before but I changed them in the last moment and didn't realize how confusing that would be).
ok, now i bearly noticing any difference. Both 'test' and 'bad' is slightly worse distortion when ON. But with HPF ON, i would leave 'test' ON.
btw, check pm.
In my tests, both those things OFF is virtually (+/- 0.01 dB) identical to setting both frequencies to 0 for pink noise.

What exactly do you mean by "But with HPF ON, i would leave 'test' ON."?

I'll look into BAD! tomorrow then, my expectation (based on looking at the code, NOT based on what I measued) was that BAD! would increase IMD - if it doesn't something else isn't doing what it should. "TEST" should be safe to switch off. I'll wait for feedback from some other people though who like *really* loud bass, they might not agree. (They are hearing sometihng in the bass that I don't hear, and don't really see when I measure it either, so this isn't something I can test myself). If they don't hear anything bad with TEST off, I'll just make that the default and hide the setting.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:51 pm 
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HPF on brings less distortions on pink noise, ofc. And with that ON, (and ofc everyone will use HPF) i dont hear much difference with "test" ON or more distortions caused by bass. maybe even slighlty more bass. BAD has more bass too but also more/always distortions caused by bass.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:52 pm
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Hi Hans,

after about 24 hours this message appears, in 9.62 no problem.

ST 9.63
Hi Hans,

I did various configuration tests, the only one that doesn't give the error is when I turn off internal streaming, could you investigate?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 2:16 am 
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I'll wait for feedback from some other people though who like *really* loud bass, they might not agree.
lol, until "jack is back" does not sounds right, it's not good :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:44 pm 
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HPF on brings less distortions on pink noise, ofc. And with that ON, (and ofc everyone will use HPF) i dont hear much difference with "test" ON or more distortions caused by bass. maybe even slighlty more bass. BAD has more bass too but also more/always distortions caused by bass.
I checked the code for "BAD!" and it would generate more highs, less bass, and more distortion in the highs. So I'm removing "BAD!" (and adding a photo of my analysis to my code archive so that next time I won't have to think so hard).

Not sure yet about "TEST". You are basically saying now that that's worse too? Based on what the code does I would expect more distortion in the mids, less in the highs.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:09 pm 
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No popups. On my main mac; the last one to ask for anything was 9.63 but that one didnt pass audio.
Last to ask for persmission and also pass audio was 9.62.
So I tried a clean install on another mac, same OS version, and no popup there either.

Both running macOS 10.15.7.

Did a reboot into an image of Sierra (10.12.6) and it plays perfectly there, so its in Catalina the problem is.

MrDonT
Temporary workaround: Start stereo_tool from the command line, bypassing the whole .app structure (so just go to the directory where Stereo Tool is installed and type ./stereo_tool). That way it DOES ask for microphone access. I don't yet know why it doesn't when you start it normally.

I have added an explicit request for microphone access, but based on the descriptions that shouldn't be needed. (Apple's documentation is absolutely horrible though, so it wouldn't surprise me if this is wrong).
Well, two shortly recapture, I've tried even the terminal way, but with still no luck. it signes the app but still audio input. And it was like this a few years bach with watccat and some libraries. So for the beta test on going, I'm now going for a simple solution Tomorrow I'll be picking up a cheap win 7 dell box to be able to continue to develvelope presets, The old win7 box died a few weeks ago, and I thought I could go back the mac world to keep stuff running. But, No Can Go, back to a win that is. I do know that apple made a few stepst tougher in theire last macOS releases, but I aint gonna hang that on you.

Hopefully I might get back to some kina preset developement soon.

Take care and stay healthy,

MrDonT
It took a while but it seems to be working now, it did ask for microphone access on our test Mac. It was really tricky to get it to work... Anyway, I'm uploading the new build now, at this point is ONLY works on 10.14 and higher (it will probably crash on older versions), but if this fixes it the next step will be to fix that.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:24 pm 
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HPF on brings less distortions on pink noise, ofc. And with that ON, (and ofc everyone will use HPF) i dont hear much difference with "test" ON or more distortions caused by bass. maybe even slighlty more bass. BAD has more bass too but also more/always distortions caused by bass.
I checked the code for "BAD!" and it would generate more highs, less bass, and more distortion in the highs. So I'm removing "BAD!" (and adding a photo of my analysis to my code archive so that next time I won't have to think so hard).

Not sure yet about "TEST". You are basically saying now that that's worse too? Based on what the code does I would expect more distortion in the mids, less in the highs.
Update: I just listened to music with ABDP in Difference mode, to hear what ABDP would do. And it's pretty clear that the mids are getting hit much harder when "TEST" (legacy mode) is turned off. I'm not as sensitive to IMD in the mids as some people (Bojcha), but chances are that this causes the mids to have slightly more IMD, even after the final stage, and to lower levels of bass and mids, especially in the presence of other frequencies (higher mids and highs). That may also leads to slightly better highs, but that's more by accident than anything else. Looking at what would be logical in the whole clipper design, I think I would lean towards keeping "TEST" (legacy) on. Other settings (highs priority, highs vs rest threshold) are far more effective to reach the same goal, and they actually make sense.

So, unless someone reports that they hear an improvement when turning "TEST" legacy mode off, I'll remove it in the next build.

Note: For the "BAD!" filter we could also change the settings, instead of having them depend on the frequencies that are already there. But I don't think that will bring much. The effect is already not big, making it possible to change the settings will have far less effect than the changes that turning "BAD!" off makes.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:55 pm 
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I got to same conclusion, 'test ON', 'bad' OFF. I was only listening/testing with 'pink noise' at various Clipper level tho.

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