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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:44 pm 
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Posted BETA045. Most important change is that when driven hard, the FM clippers (both composite and L/R) let more high frequency content (> 11 kHz) through than before, at the cost of a slightly reduced level around 6000-8000 Hz. (Typically 1 dB more highs vs 0.3 dB fewer mid-highs).

We noticed a lack of the highest highs when driven loud. This was better before we improved the clipper behavior for mid-highs a while ago, because the presence of loud high-highs was pushing everything above about 5 kHz down quite a lot. The new behavior at default settings gives about the same highest-highs behavior as it did before this mid-highs improvement, and only about 0.3 dB less mid-highs than after that update. This also means that the new frequency response compared to the input before clipping is flatter than before.

Since this is probably always an improvement, the setting for this is enabled by default. Please tell us if you notice any problems. It's the "Highest vs lowest highs priority" setting that was added a number of beta's ago, but it wasn't fully functional yet (see under Advanced Clipper -> Highs).

If it does cause problems we can lower the default value.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:54 am 
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Wes' progressive release added, still for testing only...
That's interesting..

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:16 pm
Posts: 191
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Posted BETA045. Most important change is that when driven hard, the FM clippers (both composite and L/R) let more high frequency content (> 11 kHz) through than before, at the cost of a slightly reduced level around 6000-8000 Hz. (Typically 1 dB more highs vs 0.3 dB fewer mid-highs).

We noticed a lack of the highest highs when driven loud. This was better before we improved the clipper behavior for mid-highs a while ago, because the presence of loud high-highs was pushing everything above about 5 kHz down quite a lot. The new behavior at default settings gives about the same highest-highs behavior as it did before this mid-highs improvement, and only about 0.3 dB less mid-highs than after that update. This also means that the new frequency response compared to the input before clipping is flatter than before.

Since this is probably always an improvement, the setting for this is enabled by default. Please tell us if you notice any problems. It's the "Highest vs lowest highs priority" setting that was added a number of beta's ago, but it wasn't fully functional yet (see under Advanced Clipper -> Highs).

If it does cause problems we can lower the default value.
awhile back when this was added to a BETA, i didnt notice any change with the "Highest vs lowest highs priority" and "Threshold" setting when testing them.
it appeared to be non-functional but i didnt mention anything because i figured it was being worked on.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:09 pm 
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awhile back when this was added to a BETA, i didnt notice any change with the "Highest vs lowest highs priority" and "Threshold" setting when testing them.
it appeared to be non-functional but i didnt mention anything because i figured it was being worked on.
It did a bit and it was audible but now it does a lot more.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:47 am 
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BETA046 posted. Biggest change is that now not just constant speeds ("maximum release speed") but also the non-constant speeds ("release time") can be progressive.

If you turn the Progressive release checkbox on, release speeds will generally be lower, depending on where the compressor is at that point (the attenuation level). If it's at -6 dB it runs at half the normal speed. At -12 it runs at 75%, and -18 it runs at 87.5%, etc. At 0 dB it doesn't release at all so the top part of the release will be extremely slow.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:02 pm
Posts: 123
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BETA046 posted. Biggest change is that now not just constant speeds ("maximum release speed") but also the non-constant speeds ("release time") can be progressive.

If you turn the Progressive release checkbox on, release speeds will generally be lower, depending on where the compressor is at that point (the attenuation level). If it's at -6 dB it runs at half the normal speed. At -12 it runs at 75%, and -18 it runs at 87.5%, etc. At 0 dB it doesn't release at all so the top part of the release will be extremely slow.
Hans, how is progressive release different from max dyn adjustment?
Do you prefer progressive release on?
From my perspective I had to lower release times but overall output was more consistent but not so "in your face".


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:32 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:22 pm
Posts: 282
Quote:
Quote:
BETA046 posted. Biggest change is that now not just constant speeds ("maximum release speed") but also the non-constant speeds ("release time") can be progressive.

If you turn the Progressive release checkbox on, release speeds will generally be lower, depending on where the compressor is at that point (the attenuation level). If it's at -6 dB it runs at half the normal speed. At -12 it runs at 75%, and -18 it runs at 87.5%, etc. At 0 dB it doesn't release at all so the top part of the release will be extremely slow.
Hans, how is progressive release different from max dyn adjustment?
Do you prefer progressive release on?
From my perspective I had to lower release times but overall output was more consistent but not so "in your face".
If I may: Progressive release is a simpler effect with a different purpose. It causes the release speed to get faster as you get deeper into the compressor. Nothing more. This is an effect found in many broadcast processors, so it may prove useful.

Dynamic adjustment is something else entirely. That's a much more sophisticated concept that takes into account the dynamics present in material and will both attack *and* release faster, when the content warrants it. It can also make things slower. Dynamic adjustment also behaves the same regardless of how deep into compressor gain reduction you are.

In general, when enabling dynamic adjustment, you'll probably gravitate toward slower attack and release times since it can get faster when it needs to.

When enabling progressive release, you'll typically set the release time faster than you would really want to release in most circumstances, since the compressor won't hit that speed unless you max out the gain of the compressor.

Both can be used together, but I have not made any serious attempt to do so, yet. It would certainly create some interesting effects. Not sure if they'd be good together or not.

I hope this info helps you.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:37 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
BETA046 posted. Biggest change is that now not just constant speeds ("maximum release speed") but also the non-constant speeds ("release time") can be progressive.

If you turn the Progressive release checkbox on, release speeds will generally be lower, depending on where the compressor is at that point (the attenuation level). If it's at -6 dB it runs at half the normal speed. At -12 it runs at 75%, and -18 it runs at 87.5%, etc. At 0 dB it doesn't release at all so the top part of the release will be extremely slow.
Hans, how is progressive release different between max dyn adjustment?
Do you prefer progressive release on?
From my perspective I had to lower release times but overall output was more consistent but not so "in your face".
It's a completely different thing and it may be possible to combine them (not tested, but I see no reason why).

Dynamic attack/release changes the attack/release times based on the input signal. It makes the compressor do less, in a smart way. The goal is to move fast on dynamic content and slow on already very flat content, to not make it any flatter.

Progressive release releases faster if you're down deeper. This means that pushing the compressor harder makes the sound denser. Louder sounds come out more dense.

Progressive release in combination with constant speeds, which does not work as intended in BETA046 (047 is coming), is basically what an Orban does. In Stereo Tool, you can normally drive compressors harder and nothing changes in the sound - with progressive that's completely different. So it's an extra option to shape the sound.

The goal of dynamic attack/release is very different: Handle both short spikes and long non-dynamic sounds with as minimal as possible audible effects (go down fast on short spikes and move slowly on long loud sounds to not smash it).

I *think*, but more experimenting is needed, that dynamic speeds are mostly useful for the AGC. And progressive is probably not at all what you want in an AGC.


Edit: Ok that was the same answer twice, well, hopefully that also makes it twice as clear :)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:02 pm
Posts: 123
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
BETA046 posted. Biggest change is that now not just constant speeds ("maximum release speed") but also the non-constant speeds ("release time") can be progressive.

If you turn the Progressive release checkbox on, release speeds will generally be lower, depending on where the compressor is at that point (the attenuation level). If it's at -6 dB it runs at half the normal speed. At -12 it runs at 75%, and -18 it runs at 87.5%, etc. At 0 dB it doesn't release at all so the top part of the release will be extremely slow.
Hans, how is progressive release different between max dyn adjustment?
Do you prefer progressive release on?
From my perspective I had to lower release times but overall output was more consistent but not so "in your face".
It's a completely different thing and it may be possible to combine them (not tested, but I see no reason why).

Dynamic attack/release changes the attack/release times based on the input signal. It makes the compressor do less, in a smart way. The goal is to move fast on dynamic content and slow on already very flat content, to not make it any flatter.

Progressive release releases faster if you're down deeper. This means that pushing the compressor harder makes the sound denser. Louder sounds come out more dense.

Progressive release in combination with constant speeds, which does not work as intended in BETA046 (047 is coming), is basically what an Orban does. In Stereo Tool, you can normally drive compressors harder and nothing changes in the sound - with progressive that's completely different. So it's an extra option to shape the sound.

The goal of dynamic attack/release is very different: Handle both short spikes and long non-dynamic sounds with as minimal as possible audible effects (go down fast on short spikes and move slowly on long loud sounds to not smash it).

I *think*, but more experimenting is needed, that dynamic speeds are mostly useful for the AGC. And progressive is probably not at all what you want in an AGC.


Edit: Ok that was the same answer twice, well, hopefully that also makes it twice as clear :)
Thank you both! It makes sense, now I just have to test it! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:16 pm
Posts: 191
Quote:
BETA046 posted. Biggest change is that now not just constant speeds ("maximum release speed") but also the non-constant speeds ("release time") can be progressive.

If you turn the Progressive release checkbox on, release speeds will generally be lower, depending on where the compressor is at that point (the attenuation level). If it's at -6 dB it runs at half the normal speed. At -12 it runs at 75%, and -18 it runs at 87.5%, etc. At 0 dB it doesn't release at all so the top part of the release will be extremely slow.
this would be nice for AGC since the AGC is important.


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