This looks off to me. I don't recall seeing the blue sections under the graphic spectrum displays on Delossifier:
DSP beta 22. Windows 10
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| Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA https://forums.stereotool.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26540 |
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| Author: | hvz [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
Ok let me reply here. First, the default settings of this new filter are all wrong, when you set it up properly it actually makes more sense than things like ACR Stereo. Which in turn is based on how other stereo wideners work. Yes, it's a reverb - but you can make it stop extremely fast. That gives some "richness" to the sound, where you mainly notice something disappearing when you turn it off. Which means that it _can_ be a nice effect. And obviously it's not for everyone. Of the people present in our office last Thursday when I got it working, 2 people liked it, 1 hated it and immediately said "I will never use this". That's of course fine. For the two who liked it, they preferred the sound with this thing turned on quite a bit over the sound with it turned off. Then the other things mentioned. First, yes, this was a nice little side project that just took 2 days, was fun to work on, and taught me a lot about how things like reverb work. The HPF. While it's definitely not perfect, it works pretty well in Quality 150% mode (and many other filters sound better at 150% too). But even at 100% I never noticed any issues with it in actual content. If you play a loud 5 Hz sine wave it sounds bad, but that never happens in music, speech or other content. The biggest problem with it was that it couldn't be placed at the start of the chain and the frequency calculation was off, but I have changed the code earlier this year to fix the frequency calculation and make it act like it's at the start, which did indeed improve the bass. But with that issue solved, I don't see any urgent issues with it anymore - please show me actual audio samples where it causes issues to prove me wrong, and I will look into it. AGC gate detection after AGC. Ok, I can put that in for testing. But I still think that this will cause more problems than it solves. And because of that I want to have enough time for it to be tried out first. We have seen many stations where for example the music isn't normalized in the playout system at all, and the AGC release already needs to be set much faster than we would like to handle that. Having the gate detection after the AGC would only make things worse. I have added a warning a few months ago if the input level is low for a long period of time so people running the input at -24 dB will get a warning about it. ND detection: We are actually considering a full ND redesign. If we do this, it will take at least several weeks. Not 2 days. Finally, we have multiple people working on other improvements, but none of those have been visible for anyone outside of our office yet (and it will still take some more time) because we can't show anything before it is fully working. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
Quote:
Bass final peek level determined by ABDP is not same when you use limiter. There is no 'that' bass clipping with limiter ON.
Found it. It actually does work the way it should, except for one thing: The "Bass clipping stictness" used for limiting is 1 lower than for clipping. So, limiting set to 3 equals clipping set to 2. Beside that, the effect is identical - and things like Bass Shape etc. also all work. So the calculation is just one off.Edit: Solved. Just added a +1. |
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| Author: | Bojcha [ Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
Quote: Quote:
Bass final peek level determined by ABDP is not same when you use limiter. There is no 'that' bass clipping with limiter ON.
Found it. It actually does work the way it should, except for one thing: The "Bass clipping stictness" used for limiting is 1 lower than for clipping. So, limiting set to 3 equals clipping set to 2. Beside that, the effect is identical - and things like Bass Shape etc. also all work. So the calculation is just one off.Edit: Solved. Just added a +1. |
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| Author: | hvz [ Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
Quote:
Nope. Still not same at all. In my case 60Hz tone is 0.8dB louder with limiter ON. Strictness 5. Not to mention that good old 'wobbling" in bass is present with limiter ON. Things get more weird if bass shape is used. So something does not translate to limiter as should.
Ah. I was testing with 30 Hz and that was identical after this change, but 60 was not. One filter frequency was wrong, that's fixed now. So now 60 Hz is identical too. (Next beta).
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| Author: | hvz [ Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
BETA021 uploaded, with fixed bass clipper in "Limit instead" mode. |
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| Author: | Bojcha [ Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
Much better now. Now, limiter needs about 0.4dB less level before hard limit. It goes about that amount more into hard limit then clipping. |
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| Author: | Mathijsco [ Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
Quote: but yet we still don't have proper HPF!
Though it's obvious with test tones, I don't think you'll hear it's effect in actual content. It's a rather long and technical story of why it does this. We had a little discussion about it. There is a way to fix it. It will cost latency, though. But it may have other benefits as well.
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| Author: | Bojcha [ Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
Quote: Quote: but yet we still don't have proper HPF!
Though it's obvious with test tones, I don't think you'll hear it's effect in actual content. It's a rather long and technical story of why it does this. We had a little discussion about it. There is a way to fix it. It will cost latency, though. But it may have other benefits as well.
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| Author: | hvz [ Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA |
Quote:
Much better now. Now, limiter needs about 0.4dB less level before hard limit. It goes about that amount more into hard limit then clipping.
Done (beta022). Slider added.
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| Author: | timmywa [ Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:27 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Stereo Tool 9.35 BETA | ||
This looks off to me. I don't recall seeing the blue sections under the graphic spectrum displays on Delossifier: DSP beta 22. Windows 10
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