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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:52 am 
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BETA104 is posted!

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What I'm trying to say is that FM and HD are far more complicated than internet stream and therefore should be at least some good sounding preset updates and far less complicated settings under the hood. Just like in Orban, Omnia, Breakaway..
Image[/img]My pet peeve with many processors is when all the stock presets are "starting points." That’s ok if you know how to work a processor and make the correct adjustments needed but not if you generally know nothing about processing.
The problem with this is that every market sounds different. So we do have several presets that are being used unchanged by many stations in some markets, but go somewhere else and put the same preset on the air and it will sound "off" compared to other stations.

For example, where we are located, all stations tend to have a lot of highs. There are 2 or 3 people who set up all the big stations here, and they all boost the highs a lot, typically slamming the clippers. I'm not saying that that sounds good. But if you don't do this, anyone who scans along your station will think that something is wrong because the highs are missing.

If I drive to the east for an hour, all the stations there are typically 6-8 dB quieter than they are here.

If I drive to the south for an hour, the levels are the same as here but the insane brightness is gone. If I keep driving for a few more hours, stations will get even louder and with even less brightness, and more mid-highs.

There's just no way to catch this in a single slider.

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In Orbans, and even in some Omnias they have "Less/More" sliders or similar adjustments for the more inexperienced to get a sound they like. If you were to bring back the different operating modes like Basic, Advanced, Extreme etc. I was thinking for the default presets in Basic it could just have one slider under processing for Less-More with a number from 1 to 10. 1 would be the least, 10 would be the most. The creator of the preset would decide what # they want their preset on and every step down or up on that slider would just be the creators' modifications to make said preset have more or less to it. This would most likely eliminate the need for additional "Hot" versions of presets. (ex. OVB & OVB Hot) And certain Less-More #'s could be more ideal for certain formats (maybe on say Ohio Valley Blue the lesser aggressive side would be more ideal for laid back CCM/Country, and the more aggressive side would be for CHR) Let me know what you guys think and if that makes any sense.

This function would be more for the people who don't trust their own ears to make the correct adjustments (like me). I feel more comfortable letting the professionals completely build the presets and then being able to make changes to the sound via one slider. When I had an Omnia.Hot, it had three sliders in basic mode, Thrust, Sizzle, and Thunder. No matter what I did even with those three adjustments, I couldn't get a sound I liked. Or I would and then would hear major problems later that I wouldn't in the original preset. Quick Adjust seems good for people who at least have the ear for processing, but the Less/More concept would be for people who would want the professionals to decide what changes would need to made to the sound going up or down on that slider. For Example, maybe the creator of the preset decides one step up in aggressiveness from the default would warrant making the clipper drive slightly more aggressive and the sound slightly thicker by making slight AGC and Multiband and adjustments or whatever is necessary. In OVB, for example, the concept of the sound fits my market, but it isn't quite aggressive enough in certain places. This would allow users to easily say "this needs to be a bit more aggressive," and then slide until they are happy with the product. Like I said too, this could help users who want a certain format sound and would allow users to use the same preset in one market on different formats with slightly different sounds tailored to the format they carry. Example, somebody has a Country station and a CHR. The Country station could use say #4 on the slider, and CHR could use #9. Again, just something I thought of that might be convenient for people who have zero trust in their own ears (like me, lol) to dictate what needs to be changed and where.
If you have a CHR station, you don't necessarily want it to be louder than a country station. You might want it to sound different. Probably not a lot different if it's in the same market though. So you do need multiple settings. Which I think is what we have in Quick Adjust.

What we put in Quick Adjust is basically what we think you need to adjust a preset to your local market. And I think it's impossible to do that without having at least control over amount of bass, mids, highs, aggressiveness and loudness.

Maybe we can come up with better settings than we currently have. But we definitely need multiple.

And making a preset is already a lot of work, I really don't want to have preset makers define how these sliders would work. If we were to do that, the only real way of doing it would be to add a scripting language with which people can control what a specific slider really does. If I compare the Ohio Valley Blue and Blue Hot for example, some settings have been turned on in one and off in the other. So you would have to be able to say: "If "Hotness" > 2 set "Bass Exciter" to "on". But that would in turn cause a big audio change if you go from 1.9 to 2.1, and people won't expect that.

I can see that sometihng like that could be useful, but it would greatly reduce the number of people that would be capable of creating presets, and it would make it a lot more work. So if possible I would rather have some settings like we do have now that just work the same on each preset. If you have suggestions for better settings than we have now, let me know. With the new compressor we might be able to create different Quick Adjust settings anyway; this could be a good time to purge some existing settings and completely replace them.


Having said all this, I can see some use for extra "smartness", but it might also make things harder for people who do know what they are doing. For example, if you raise the loudness on a station it could make sense to lower the highs a bit and speed up attack, to protect the clipper against excessive highs or any other loud sounds. That will likely sound better, but if we were to do that, that slider would have some very unexpected effects. So this would be the "I want to be louder but still sound good" slider, vs the "I just want to be louder and keep the same sound as much as possible even if it sounds bad" slider.

If you have a good suggestion for how to handle this, I would be very interested. Especially with the new compressor with its very high consistency, speeding up the attack has a massive effect on what the clipper will have to handle, so this could very well be a useful setting. We can of course have 2 settings, "Loudness" and "Punchiness"., but we would have to somehow make it clear that a punchier louder sound can start to distort.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 1:11 pm 
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Very interesting. I realize this isn't what the suggestion regarding Less-More sliders was about, but I had a suggestion a while back for a slider to nullify the sound processing (not counting things like the clipper and declipper) so as you reduce it, the sound profile of the original "unprocessed" audio comes through. It would also be handy to have a "Delta" (Difference) type button for the entire processing chain next to this slider. This could maybe work on a per-module basis to help users impact their sound profile without adjusting individual filter settings.

I don't know how much of this is hard work and how much is UI-related, etc.

I now understand how difficult it would be to implement custom sliders that affect 2 things inversely. Maybe some scripters out there could manage something with the JSON interface though. It's times like these I wish I had the opportunity to take coding or scripting classes as a young one.

EDIT: Past skin value in VST2 RadioBoss causes loop; value keeps increasing.
This happens in almost all hosts I've tried. It doesn't happen if a skin is loaded.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 3:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:25 am
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There are a couple of places you must unfold by clicking the > next to a block
Thanks !


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 9:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:02 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Banja Luka
Hello everyone. I ran beta 103 as a vst2 64 bit plugin in RadioBoss. I use the Mathijsco Klinker media preset. I have to admit that this new compressor sounds pretty good now. There were some songs that sounded a little unnatural to me. I sent one of those to Hans via private messages. This new compressor shows promise. It can be even better and I assume it will be better. From the settings, I loaded only the processing and repair options. I'm not an FM because I don't have an FM license. You can hear how this new Stereo tool works for me at this link.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:45 pm
Posts: 14
Hi!
I'm not an audio technical guru but my ears can still rely on good quality sound (well, in my own opinion anyway:) )

Ih ave now used the preset that Mathijsco ulpoaded using StereoTool DSP version and as I wrote earlier - I like that a lot BUT! I can't get it really. Beacuse something happens with the audio sound (without any new editing from my part) after a while. That happend also to Weskeenes Aquina preset as well....It sounded sharp and clear when I start using it but now instead of bright and fresh it's instead "dull", unnatural and the sound feels like you have "muted the eq flat"...Well not easy to descibe but it's not what I sounded from start!!
How and what may cause this? A bug or..Well Help would be more than welcome.
Have never experienced this behaviour before so I still think it must have something to do with the Beta?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:18 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:02 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Banja Luka
Quote:
Hi!
I'm not an audio technical guru but my ears can still rely on good quality sound (well, in my own opinion anyway:) )

Ih ave now used the preset that Mathijsco ulpoaded using StereoTool DSP version and as I wrote earlier - I like that a lot BUT! I can't get it really. Beacuse something happens with the audio sound (without any new editing from my part) after a while. That happend also to Weskeenes Aquina preset as well....It sounded sharp and clear when I start using it but now instead of bright and fresh it's instead "dull", unnatural and the sound feels like you have "muted the eq flat"...Well not easy to descibe but it's not what I sounded from start!!
How and what may cause this? A bug or..Well Help would be more than welcome.
Have never experienced this behaviour before so I still think it must have something to do with the Beta?
Hi, can you listen to my stream on the link I provided in the post above. I don't think that what you're talking about is happening with me. If you can, listen to my stream and see if that's the case for me. I started the ST last night somewhere around 9pm CET.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:42 pm 
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Hello everyone. I ran beta 103 as a vst2 64 bit plugin in RadioBoss. I use the Mathijsco Klinker media preset. I have to admit that this new compressor sounds pretty good now. There were some songs that sounded a little unnatural to me. I sent one of those to Hans via private messages. This new compressor shows promise. It can be even better and I assume it will be better. From the settings, I loaded only the processing and repair options. I'm not an FM because I don't have an FM license. You can hear how this new Stereo tool works for me at this link.
I think what you're hearing in True Bass. Which might be doing a bit too much here; on top of that the song doesn't have much bass by itself so the bass band gets reduced less by the multiband compressor than the other bands. Please try turning True Bass off and see if you like it better - to me it sounds more natural that way. I don't think this is a compressor problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 11238
Quote:
Hi!
I'm not an audio technical guru but my ears can still rely on good quality sound (well, in my own opinion anyway:) )

Ih ave now used the preset that Mathijsco ulpoaded using StereoTool DSP version and as I wrote earlier - I like that a lot BUT! I can't get it really. Beacuse something happens with the audio sound (without any new editing from my part) after a while. That happend also to Weskeenes Aquina preset as well....It sounded sharp and clear when I start using it but now instead of bright and fresh it's instead "dull", unnatural and the sound feels like you have "muted the eq flat"...Well not easy to descibe but it's not what I sounded from start!!
How and what may cause this? A bug or..Well Help would be more than welcome.
Have never experienced this behaviour before so I still think it must have something to do with the Beta?
This sounds like there might be a bug that gets triggered and either puts sometihing in a wrong state, or slowly moves out of control. Could be one of those CPU-related issues that we talked about a few pages back, if it only happens on your system and others don't see it.

Do you see anything strange if you look at the meters? Since you say it sounds dull, do you see that the high frequency bands are reduced more after some amount of time? Maybe a lot of limiting?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:02 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Banja Luka
Thanks Hans I turned off the true bass and now the bass guitars are not prominent in the soundscape.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 12:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:31 pm
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I have doubts, even one that I have consulted for a long time and I have not had an answer (Maybe it is a bug).

1. What is the difference between the first and second option of "Before Multibands" in the Equalizer section? (Bug?)

2. Why in the "Noise Gate" section is it not possible to adjust the bands or to know which bands the Gate control works?

Best regards.-


Attachments:
File comment: "Noise Gate" only show Band1, Band2 and so.
N-Gate.jpg
N-Gate.jpg [ 96.4 KiB | Viewed 1053 times ]
File comment: "Before Multibands" twice.
Eq.jpg
Eq.jpg [ 99.11 KiB | Viewed 1053 times ]
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