Stereo Tool

The end goal was indeed to have more dynamic range.

I did a comparison against the latest Bangkok Dynamic that was posted, because I'm still trying to tackle the bass properly, along with the right mix of highs. BD actually has more power and is technically louder, although the post amp setting knocks a full decibel off of the final RMS, getting it to around the same RMS level.

If you're still working on anything, I might could work with it a bit more today. The lack of highs is probably due to me trying to compensate for the bass, along with possibly more clipping than is needed in multiband, and too much de-essing. Also, I have run several hearing tests and have noticed that I'm losing the ability to hear highs beyond about 15K, so I went conservative, thinking that I might over-saturate the highs due to not hearing them...

It's probably not bad - I just love really really really loud highs. For as long as I can remember (I got my first cassette recorder when I was 6) I always put the treble as high as I could. So I'm probably not the right person to comment on this - in fact, to some extent, if you increase the highs in a preset I'll probably like it more even if it sounds worse. So - just don't worry too much about it. (It's even possible that the reduced highs are helping in the perception of more quality!)

I'm still waiting for a few updated presets from Bojcha and I still need to find a good order to list the presets. So if you have any updates, just post them here and I can include them.

R3

Included in the zip file is one preset for the "Web" preset section, and one for the "Generic".

Generally, this version has a little bit more highs than R2 due to changes in clipping levels in multiband as well as a higher de-esser setting (web version). The "generic" version has a slightly higher value for "Final Clipper" to try to keep the volume up some, but it is still perhaps 1 dB softer than the regular version, with most of that probably being a loss of the deep bass boost.

Unless there's a major problem, this is the final revision I'm going to do with this. Mids still drop some, but it can wait for a redesigned multiband.

Edit: Removed file due to Hans posting a new version with stuff having to do with highs. Will wait for version 6.31 to be feature and code complete before posting R3.

Adding the R3 zip file.

In the web version, I have changed the highs strictness to 3, as per the discussion of the future default, and the highs sensitivity to 0.40.

This is a test version, using the Singleband Compressor to reduce volume going into loudness rather than using the Final Clipper's volume reduction.

In addition, I've played around with the Mids and Highs reduction multipliers for the new bass clipping settings in Loudness, modeled off of Bojcha's Euphoria settings.

Other changes were a reduction in target output level in the main AGC, reactivation of Bass Boost, and changes to bass upspeeds in multiband.

I have NOT checked this version for final RMS output level. I suspect it is the same or louder than R3. R3 is what is included in the latest download of StereoTool, under Generic and Web presets. This would be the "Web" version.

Edit: Removing the zip file, as per the final message from me in this subject (test is over).

Final Clipper (limiter) is doing nothing when loudness is ON. With its slider you just control 'loudness' input.

btw.. why you use MB at all in this preset? it's on to remove bass then 'bass boost' boosts it again. Better turn off all that.
Opps, what will left.

I'm well aware of that, but thank you for saying exactly what I said, only in your terms. I'm glad we both understand. If you're referencing the 175% clip, I have tried to provide Hans with separate "Generic" and "Web" versions in the past, but he simply turns loudness OFF and calls that the "Generic" version. Knowing this in advance, I set the 175% value, knowing that when loudness got turned OFF, the setting that I want will be present. I might reduce this to 150%. Not sure yet, but again, thanks for pointing out what I already know.
I've described, several times, that one of my wishes is to be able to control compression or limiting on a per-band basis. These settings approximate that.

Additionally, I discussed with Hans at length about not making this preset as gentle on bass compression as I would like, because to do that I had to make the GUI down speeds look like it was at zero, but it was not really zero, and the settings are highly sensitive to changes made in the GUI, so much so that small changes in other areas of the MB GUI would "undo" my intended settings, so the down speeds are the lowest non-"zero" GUI-supported level.

Additionally, there is post-MB equalization, and the increased EQ and bass boost is to offset the over-compression that I mentioned above.

Also, the name of the preset was symbolic, representing both the expirimental nature of what I was doing, and that the intent was to retain the "purity" of what was being processed. You can see this happen on a twist of one of your reference tracks - David Guetta & Justice - "Jack is Back". You will notice how the output waveform is relatively close to the input waveform. This is a loud track. For softer tracks, the ending volume using this preset is louder, but is scaling up louder with a generally good ratio in relation to the original input.

Finally, if you read through the tutorial that Hans wrote, you will find that the AGC was indeed intended as the primary control, with MB as a secondary "fine tuning".

Is there something constructive you wish to add to the discussion?

Futher experimentation has again led me back to the AGC being problematic.

Methodology of test:

- Set Preamp to x1.00
- Disable AGC
- Retain all other settings of previously posted test preset

Play track "Rolling in the Deep" - Adele.

Next:

- Set Preamp to x4.00
- Enable AGC
- Retain all other settings of previously posted test preset

With the AGC enabled, at various points during the "backing vocals" (may actually just be Adele herself with chorus / harmonizer like Amy Lee uses, as I can't find specific credits for backing vocalists), the vocals and some other mids get pushed down when all of the vocals are happening at the same time, and particularly with any sustained loud notes.

This is likely the purpose behind "Allow Louder Female Voices" in the AGC, but it does not handle it enough.

The only way I've been able to counteract this issue is to have the final RMS level at the end of the processing chain be 2-3 decibels louder than what I would like so that everything can fit into the signal.

The end result is that I'm declaring the test over, and will just wait for improvements to the AGC or a new multiband that can help address the downsides of running the signal through the current AGC.

That thing with generic and web (original) presets Hans explaind. generic presets are for free ST users.
I also argree that 'that' is not good - but maybe next time preset creator can indicate that does not want his preset in "generic" list... but that's not so important ...

About pre-amp...
It's totally un-important for sound how that slider is adjusted.. only difference is range. And reason is simple - AGC does not have "sweet-spot" (like some AGCs)
What that mean.. if you want some track with really soft parts to be fully controled with AGC then you need to set pre-amp to maximum level till you have softer part in track with small 'white' in AGC meter.

I know all problems with MB (even more then mentioned), but someone told me "we need to use what we have" - and i half-agree... If i can chance to change internal things - I'll try to change them.

I tested preset and also original "Purity Control".. and i saw only first 3 bands is doing something. Attenuating. and that is about ~1-4dB, not more. then you have EQ which bring back attenuated signal (in some way)... ...
and that' why i asked why all that ...simply turn off MB or set all speeds to 0 so you can use EQ (if needed) .. you will have more quality, naturality.. or whatever...

I understand what you want to do .. but i think that's not possible with any multi-processor avaliable.

I would maybe focus on De-Clipper + AGC (with protection!) + Loudness (with lower bass peek protection [-3dB]) + fine tuning 'sens', to achive what you want. I can not mention "singleband compressor" since it's really bad.

Forgot to say. if you really want to use MB, try closer to "Limit" with speeds adjusted at AGC speeds. But then you must use 'clippers' especially for highs (loud S, etc) and for low end depend what range you'll use. /