Stereo Tool

What the f... is that ?

The MBCF SUPER CHALLENGE 2012
is an open contest/project to find advanced multiband center frequency modifications.

The problem with all the different presets until now is, that it is very difficult or nearly impossible to compare different CF mods, because there is no neutral basis due to the complexity and differences between all the presets and the individual settings besides the Multiband.

Therefore I have created a special rudimentary preset dummy that can be used as a neutral basis for CF mods comparisons, because I believe that the Multiband is the most important and central module for the final quality of the processing.

The usage is very simple:

1. Open the MB_CF_dummy.sts with a text editor (e.g. Notepad)

2. Replace the CF band entries (please only the CF frequencies !) with your own -> save it to a new MB_CF_xyz_yourforumname.sts (!) file

3. Then compare your CF mod with other already uploaded CF mods (like my or the default standard CF)

4. Eventually add some gentle (!) before multiband EQ settings via the MB GUI, if you think that it is necessary and save it as usual.

For the start I have uploaded three CF preset files (MB_CF_starter.zip):
1. MB_CF_dummy.sts
2. MB_CF_default_standard.sts
3. MB_CF_PretenderV1_michi95.sts (which is based to 70 percent on Brian's Hypersonic V7 Beta 1 !)

IMO I have used absolute neutral settings for MB_CF_dummy.sts (it is identical with MB_CF_default_standard.sts) based on a Stereo Tool reset (but feel free to give me an advice to create a more neutral basis !?).

After reset the following settings were adjusted for the neutral basis:
1. Multiband On
2. Before multiband enabled
3. Compress-Limit slider moved to the middle
4. Final Limiter On
5. Hard Limit On
6. Pre Amp x 2.00 (+6.00 dB)
7. Bass Boost enabled (with default settings)


So start with MB_CF_default_standard.sts versus MB_CF_PretenderV1_michi95.sts and compare as many different sources as possible.

Ok, I use before multiband EQ (but only very gentle !).
Of course you are free to adjust the EQ for the MB_CF_default_standard.sts too.
But I doubt that you have a chance to reach the quality and consistency of my MB_CF_PretenderV1_michi95.sts that way (keeping the default CFs) !?
Ideally the perfect CF mod would not need any pre EQ.
But for one person it would be very difficult to find it (to try so many different CF combinations), because if you have already tried to create your own CF mods you know that even very small changes (+/- 3 Hz for bass and +/- 50 Hz for mid and high bands) can have a noticeable impact to the spectral results.
But working together we can reach the goal much faster - to create the best possible CF mod !

Especially drag the Pre Amp slider back and forth to compare how the different CF mods react when the input level increases/decreases !
And drag the Compress-Limit slider back and forth to hear how it reacts with different characteristics (compress versus limit).
Full limiting characteristic in MB is the acid test for the quality of the selected CF mod !

Most obvious differences are noticeable with modern loudness war masters, like "Kelly Osbourne - Papa Don't Preach", Alien Ant Farm "Smooth Criminal", Foo Fighters "Pretender", etc.

Your feedback is needed.
So, please tell us what you think and feel free to upload here your own CF mods (of course also your modifications of CF mods of other users) !

If you want to participate by creating your own MB CF mods, please upload your files before December 21th 2012, because the MBCF Super Challenge committee cannot guarantee that .... well you know .... because with that day the calender of this Lady will end !

Have fun !

http://goo.gl/hsuPq

edit:
hmm lol..
i just quick tested this frequencies in ST MB and something intereseting things happen.
Will test more when i get home...

So is this your (first) CF mod for the contest ?

For all doubters of the general reasonability of CF modding
http://goo.gl/hsuPq
is for sure a good starting point, because you cannot say that this CF mod has a lack of linearity.
So it was a very good idea from Bojcha to start with that CF mod, because now should be clear to everyone that you can participate independant if you believe more in non-linearity (like me) or more in traditional linearity.

Participate (at least compare the CF mods) !

It is really fun !

Guess, I already started on a positive note then. I've been using this set for a while now:
30, 60, 120, 250, 500, 1K, 2K, 4K, 8K, 16K


Mine was a subtle deviation from iTunes equalizer's center frequencies. My first implementation of this combination was dismal in SonicSynth.

But since then, having compared and analysed the spectrum content of different quality webstreams, I realized it's very possible to attain a near linear output using this combination.
Made significant changes by varying attack and release speeds (which I used in Impact MX preset).
Infact, with Bass Boost and HPF/LPF disabled, and with ITU BS 1770, it's linear like a ruler.
Also, for electronic/trance soundtracks, the median values are pretty much at the same levels.

Nonetheless, it would be interesting what others come up with. Good luck!

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I thought that I am very lazy (but obvious I am not the only one).

It is necessary to create and upload CF mod files (based on the CF mod dummy preset).
You have to compare (-> use your ears) !

Only to write here what CFs you have used in your presets is a redundant information.
It is logic that you have used your specific CFs, because you think that those were best for the processing of your presets.

I could extract CFs from other user presets.
But if I would do it, I would not include any EQ setting !
So I prefer that the original preset authors upload their CF mod files to apply gentle EQ for best processing results.

And again (most important):
Use your ears and compare different CF mod files !
Especially play that Foo Fighters "Pretender" or similiar tracks.

All linear CFs structures (including default settings and those even worse settings
that Bojcha posted) cannot handle that "Pretender" track at all.

But try it with my CF mod PretenderV1 or with Brian`s original HypersonicV7beta1 CF mod (both using absolute non-linear approaches).
For that specific "Pretender" track I even prefer Brian`s original HypersonicV7beta1 CFs over my mod.
But in conjunction with playlists with many old titles IMO my mod can add a little more fidelity.

Michi you are so wrong about all!

1. Multiband in Stereo Tool is "faulty" first of all crossovers are not done properly, there is no 'standard' options for one decent compressor, also some sourround things are missing, for example, 1-band or 2-band compressor after MB wich actually should be "with in" multiband and after that are "mix-outs"... etc..
So you can't just expect by fixing band frequencies will fix all.
We talked and know about that, author knows about that and there is plan to change that.

2. Will take same example, "the pretender". Do you actually know what's the point about that track? It's certainly not frequency of MB bands! Point is just loud_burst_after_soft_part. which is (more or less) present in ALL preset for ST. Reason is simple, there is no proper compressor/protection after AGC and MB especially if you use slower speeds in MB, wich i think gives "best_not_overcompressed_and detailed_sound". Actually, You CAN make that burst to sound very decent, but then you screwed about 80% other tracks. Someone figured out and asked for 2-band compressor, but there is also many even better solutions.
Just look at BBP Block scheme (If you are not already, but might be good to look again). You can also take a look in other processors. Download their PDF's - many things are explained.

3. Processing music for home, and for broadcast (streaming/FM) is not same, no matter what "RMS" we are talking about.
I alredy proposed to all to try processing_testfiles from PDF and to try to maintain consistency there. Why? Well that is exactly what will one broadcaster play on air! You have many different 'tracks' in there where one is uber-compressed and other not, where one is with totally different "color" from other, change in levels, loud bursts .. etc.

4. About Your presets...
I was amazed with some of your posts, like lame comparation and some other talks about details in audio .. etc..
But when i heard your first preset, i just started to ignore your posts!
First thing is that Stereo Tool is not Restoration tool! True that De-Clipper and Noise Gate (which is actually more "dynamic noise reduction") can be classified as Restoration filters, but in your presets You just cannot offer "noise gate" settings like that! Settings like that just kills many things is audio. Or maybe you are expecting from listener to listen U2- One whole day, or similar ready_for_restoration tracks (?)
- What the heck is with MB in Your preset? Are you are using it or not? Well, settings like that I can make in few seconds - meaning using multiband minimal as possible will always bring something "safe" - Original!
Also you are talking about details. How do you think to have details in your preset with your thunder-fast MB? Sometimes whole instruments are missing.

4. I see that 'that' TT DR important for you and others. If you ask me (If something means what I say) TT-DR is totally joke!
Similar thing is with "BS-412", but i will not talk about that right now. (btw TT DR author[s] and BS412 author[s] have same goal)
If your preset looks_good in TT DR that does not mean that ALL is OK! Start use ears. If TT DR show some higher RMS then it should - that does not mean that dynamics is lost or details or what ever...

5. Back on subject:
True that bands must be in some order - but that will not fix some "real" problems in overall processing as you expect!

Re: The Pretender

For the moment, I've considered this track and other similar tracks to be the exception, not the norm.

I also still think the bass content is not what needs to be controlled to control that loud spike. The percussion is indeed involved, but in my opinion it's the attack frequencies of percussion, not the low end. Also adding to the problem are the vocals, which in this specific case, is the "wh" sound coming in very strong, which adds to the same general frequency region of the percussion's attack range.

For proof of that, completely clip the first 5 frequency bands for my V7 Beta 3b (50, 100, 200, 400, and 800), then listen to that 3:28-3:31 portion of the track, and you will see and hear the spike.

+1. When I voiced a similiar opinion, it was shot down. Probably I voiced it a lot earlier
I agree on this as well. My biggest mistake was - previously I was looking for 'One size fits all solution'. We CAN NOT make that one magical preset which will do (re)mastering for all soundtracks. I was taking broadcast processors to be an automated solution for correcting pitch etc. Reading from the other's post, obviously I can infer, I was not alone.

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That might all be true.
But you are talking about the future.
But we have to deal with the Multiband and its problems and limitations today. Yes.
You have to do your professional broadcast thing.
And I do what I like and think is (subjectively) for me the best at home.
Do you think that you are God ?
You define what Stereo Tool is !
Aha !
People can learn ( to do things better).
And you can learn too ( I hope).
It is all about ignorance.
You ignore my posts (yes, this is obvious), but you answer here (multiple personality ?).
You try to rule this forum and to decide who has a right and who has no right to post here.
Even if I would be that idiot (you think I am) - even then I have the right to post here.
I know with some tracks it is not good.
So, please instead of to ignore me or bash on me it would be better if you would give an advice to me what special tracks I should try to hear this "whole instruments are missing" problem and give me the opportunity to learn what is wrong with my presets.

Yes, it is true that I use ultra fast upspeed in MB with my BASE presets.
But you ignore (the important detail) that this is not the fact with these CF mod preset files.

It is your decision to keep your ignorance, but it would be better if you start to use your ears on this rudimentary CF mod presets (with standard/default up and down speeds in MB !).

If you think that this is all a waste of time - ok, no problem then keep to ignore this topic (and me), but stop to waste my time with your godlike attitude and definition of what is worth and what is not worth to be tried.

It is possible to change CFs so I and others (even you with some of your presets) use it.

You obvious prefer a world where one person (you !) decide what is wrong and what is good.

But we (including me) have the right to create whatever presets we want.
You can ignore it.
And I don`t care about if you laugh about what I do.

You can do what you want with Stereo Tool.
But I also can do what I want with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolerance