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 Post subject: Hypersonic V7 - Final
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:46 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 885
Note: Feb 29, 2012 - Release Candidate 1, the first attachment, "HypersonicV7_RC1.zip" has a 3-band AGC.

Note: Mar 18, 2012 - added RC2

Note: Mar 27, 2012 - Final
*********************

After a lot of testing various things, I'm posting the final update for this preset.

Included in the zip file is a "Standard" edition that is with loudness, and a "Declipper" version that is with the declipper and loudness enabled. I did not make a separate version that uses only the final limiter (now listed as the "final clipper" in the GUI).

I did manage to reduce the RMS level some (approx 1 dB) from the level of RC2.

Notes: I lowered the gating level by 2 dB, so the AGC will rise a little faster now. That said though, track-to-track changes in a playlist, particularly if there are fade-outs, may still be problematic. I appreciate the broadcasting school of thought that the gain needs to come up fast from a fade so that the broadcast volume stays within a certain range, but this preset is not made with broadcasting in mind. Even still, if you find the up speed to still be too slow, you can change the gating to something like -20 dB instead where it's at now, and also change the up push strength to x 0.2 or higher.


Attachments:
File comment: Contains a standard version and a declipper version. I did not make a separate non-loudness version.
HypersonicV7.zip [8.23 KiB]
Downloaded 748 times
HypersonicV7_RC2.zip [4.04 KiB]
Downloaded 491 times
HypersonicV7_RC1.zip [4.1 KiB]
Downloaded 507 times


Last edited by Brian on Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:02 am, edited 8 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:48 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 885
Due to discovery that the AGC being enabled with the settings I had was pushing voices down, I disabled the AGC, and then changed some things. This is the first beta.

Because the AGC is disabled, I also lowered the preamp. I do not have any tracks with ultra-quiet input, so this is not an issue for me. If it is an issue for you, then you can raise the preamp, but that will likely cause a need to redo various other settings.

To clarify something else that I've said, I've kept striving for a "lower RMS and higher Dynamic Range". This should not be interpreted as the ouput of this preset has a lower RMS than the original track. In most cases, it does not. The only problematic track that I've found so far where it does is The Pretender. My view is that there is a volume knob or slider that can be adjusted, and that the mix itself does not need to be super-hot (loud) if you want to play it loud.

Continuing with that thought, there is also no way anyone can decipher at what volume I'm listening based upon the RMS level of the mix. My guess, and yes, it's a guess, since I do not have something that can measure SPL, is that I'm listening at somewhere between 80 and 95 dB. While this is not "rock concert" level, it is also not at a level of just background noise. It is at the upper end of what audiologists will list as a volume level that will not damage hearing in a short period of time.

*******

Beta 2

- Multiband center frequency changes
- Multiband EQ changes
- Multiband soft limit changes
- Multiband clipping changes
- Brought back vocal protection


Attachments:
HypersonicV7Betas.zip [19.89 KiB]
Downloaded 439 times
HypersonicV7_Beta2.zip [3.98 KiB]
Downloaded 504 times


Last edited by Brian on Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:09 am 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 475
Hypersonic V7 Beta 1
sounds fantastic ! :D :arrow: :!:


IMO the Beta 2 goes back in the direction of the V6 sound characteristic.

V7 Beta 1 has a kind of stability (especially voices) that I miss in Beta 2.

Maybe I have already drunk one or two beers too much, but now listening for a while with my headphones on, it seems to me as if Beta 1 is perfect.

I do not write this, because I look for reconciliation.

I really like this V7 Beta 1 a lot.
With headphones I definetly prefer it over my BASE V2. 8-)

And the dynamic range and especially the natural balance for different parts (intros, solos versus high energy parts) as intended during original mixing is also a great improvement (based on the bypassed AGC section).

As Alanis said - isn`t it ironic, but for a longtime I had created presets (not released) also without AGC ! :)
Attachment:
2636355.jpg
2636355.jpg [ 52.74 KiB | Viewed 10522 times ]


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:49 am 
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Posts: 4151
Quote:
Hypersonic V7 Beta 1sounds fantastic ! :D :arrow: :!:
Is it possible!? :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:10 am 
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Posts: 475
Quote:
Quote:
Hypersonic V7 Beta 1 sounds fantastic ! :D :arrow: :!:
Is it possible!? :mrgreen:
Yesssssssssssssssssssssssss !

And even more is possible !
I have just discovered something special in the Multiband - something like a hidden setting/option (not used by anyone in any known preset until now).
I am now testing the details. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:58 am
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Checked Beta 2 just now. How surprising when different approaches yield near similiar results. This revision of yours comes very close to a work in progress of mine. I say different because I've not yet lost faith in using AGC. All in all V2 is good.
The only reason I can't use your preset for my purpose is - my playlist contains tracks which have very silent passages. This is, I guess, where you get lucky.
Couple of things I wanted to know (for I sense you are approaching to achieve a similiar transparency as I intend to ):
1. How you calibrate your multiband in conjunction with AGC (if you were to do it)? Do you calibrate in the documented approach of enabling only single band in AGC initially?
2. Have you tried using ITU BS 1770 with Bass AGC?
At any rate a mix of center frequencies(all at same amplitude) should be as much linear as possible.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:58 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 885
Thanks for the feedback thus far. I was already working on Beta 3 shortly after posting Beta 2.
Quote:
The only reason I can't use your preset for my purpose is - my playlist contains tracks which have very silent passages. This is, I guess, where you get lucky.
I think if you work with the upspeed in Multiband, you can achieve similar results.
Quote:
Couple of things I wanted to know (for I sense you are approaching to achieve a similiar transparency as I intend to ):
1. How you calibrate your multiband in conjunction with AGC (if you were to do it)? Do you calibrate in the documented approach of enabling only single band in AGC initially?
2. Have you tried using ITU BS 1770 with Bass AGC?
At any rate a mix of center frequencies(all at same amplitude) should be as much linear as possible.
I hadn't really gone through and calibrated myself. The settings were an amalgam of what other people had posted. My hope is that once I'm done with the overall sound, I can then go back and see if the AGC works as a throttle for higher preamp values. This is backwards from what the guide is, I think. I think it advocates AGC first, then multiband.

My whole "complaint" with respect to all of this is the sparse documentation of the software. With my past experience in a Fortune 500 company, which had to comply with all kinds of audits, including Sarbanes-Oxley, we had to produce a ton of documentation. I understand Hans is on his own, and maybe one of the things that he should consider doing, if he is now self-employed, is hiring a Technical Writer and giving the documentation responsibilities to them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:04 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 885
Beta 3 "b" - The Bass Edition

I have no idea how this is going to sound to the rest of you in comparison to the previous two, but with this I have tried to get the vocals as close as I could, but more accurately reproduce the strong bass of modern pop, hip-hop, and r&b.

Most of the changes are in multiband, but some over in loudness. I was tinkering with the singleband limiter and final limiter, but decided to just reduce the loudness slider some.

Take it for a spin, but bear in mind that as bass increases, mids and highs have to get some increases as well...


Attachments:
HypersonicV7_Beta3b.zip [4 KiB]
Downloaded 463 times
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:24 am 
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Posts: 475
Quote:
At any rate a mix of center frequencies(all at same amplitude) should be as much linear as possible.
That is some kind of dogma like the "less bands would be better"-theory.
IMO the problem is that the higher the complexity of a system is, the more difficult ( :arrow: complicated) it is to control/tune it.
Linearity (as a concept/approach) is based on simplicity.
It is very easy to describe what linearity means (a regular progressing of constant intervalls).

IMO music and its spectral structure is very complex.
Of course it is based on regularities.
But it also contains somehow chaotic peaks based on the specific frequency range of different music and percussion instruments and their superimpositions.
That is why I believe that linearity for center frequencies in Multiband is not the best method.

Of course it is a lot of trial and error to manual edit STS files to find good/better multiband center frequencies, but I guess in the end you can achieve an overall superior processing comparing it with linear progressing settings.
So I think that I prefer Beta 1, because of its non-linearity.
Though I have tweaked it (Beta 1) a little bit.
In the past I had also used 8K (it was Bojcha who introduced that frequency first in a Stereo Tool preset !?), but now I prefer to use 7K instead, because I ( :arrow: my ears) have the impression that 8K is one of these special (possibly most) superimposed peak points (voice-S-sounds + closed hihat).
That is why I prefer to shift the center of this band to 7k.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:29 am 
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Quote:
That is some kind of dogma like the "less bands would be better"-theory.
Afaik, there are many (decent) processors with less bands. Actually all. (except vorsis). So, it's not "theory"


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