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 Post subject: Re: Tilt Issue!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:41 am
Posts: 56
Quote:
TheDaChicken- I understand your interest in getting things perfect. Are you in the USA? If so you are operating as a Part 15 station, and as a practical matter modulation level is not regulated. Adjust it to sound as you like and have fun broadcasting to nearby radios.
Yes, I am living in the US. Thank you for those words of encouragement even if it may not be perfect :D
Quote:
1. if you already have a sound card capable of generating 192KHz, make a simulation of what comes out of it. So connect the "mpx output" of the sound card directly to the line in (which must also be set to 192khz). I see that you are using the MPX tool, select the line in sound card as the source.
I have lots of sound cards capable of generating 192Khz. I've tried looking at what comes out by "line in" using mpxtool.
It's not too bad. It has no similar tilt like what comes out of PCS electronics Transmitter.
Quote:
2. Disconnect from the pcs8000 board all the cables except the display.
Improvise a cable that you will connect to the "audio input" pins on the transmitter board. Check if the preemphasis jumper is in the 0 position
You are probably not wrong about making a cable. Am not sure if that would change anything though. I've tried every "normal" input there is to that Transmitter.

I mean, it's dumb at this point that I spent $50 dollars (or even more I don't care at this point) for an "MPX Input board" with a USB that only does 97khz output.

Including another $50 ... for an input board without "MPX" labeled and ... another $50 for an "RDS" board (that I didn't need but came with the bundle) which makes the Transmitter turn off after 5 minutes. All of that crap sounds like I got scammed. Oh my lord.
Quote:
3. The transmitter MUST be either on dummy load or on an adequate antenna for VHFII during operation. Otherwise, you will have nasty parasitic interference on the equipment and in the RF spectrum.
Originally when I got this transmitter, I got an antenna from PCS Electronics. I've switched to that and another antenna with no change. According to PCS Electronics, "good antenna everything perfect" with what I got.
Quote:
4. Now test first the sine at 50Hz. In this test, normally the maximum deviations may be 5%. If the readings are higher (10-15%), the transmitter does not have a flat response, but this can be corrected if there is a sinusoidal shape on the reading. If you read irregular shapes, it means that the problem is with the transmitter modulator, and there is nothing you can do about it.
With my input to the transmitter, a "50hz sine" would be outside of the 200khz bandwidth. I have specifically a recording back when I had it in my room for easy-access while I was running a "50hz sine" from MicroMPX.
Quote:
6. I see that you have a problem with the frequency deviation on the SDR. It doesn't necessarily have to be a problem in the transmitter. If you use a dongle without a TCXO reference crystal, then the dongle itself has reception error in the range of a few kilohertz on VHFII (depending on the ambient temperature)
The SDR I have does infact have a TCXO. Hahaha *got em*
Quote:
7. If you're still looking for a good little fm exciter, hit nrg shop or duchrfshop with DIY kits.
Thanks for the recommendations!

I mean I hope I can get across how much crap word I had to deal with this. I don't want to say I've given up but I put it on the side for now.

I've gotten another FM transmitter since this post from "Aareff Transmitters." They provided good support - including sending a test run video from the CEO before sending it to me. It is not perfect. But it's a lot better than PCS Electronics.

After I received it and tested it, I didn't email support telling them how I felt with their transmitter due to "unmotivated" situation currently. I am not sure how they would reply.



At this point, I am waiting for the new StereoTool compressor design to see if the processed sound doesn't sound like dull for the music I listen to.

I do feel like I have to express that I am not overcompressing which would cause that issue to happen because "it sounds dull". Anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Tilt Issue!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:20 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I have the Aareff 1W PLL (version 10.1) and it overshoots often. I've had this problem since I got it in 2020. I've discussed the issue with Paul and he told me what components to replace. I did the mods but it's still not as good as I wanted. The DAC I use isn't the problem since I modified it for lower tilt. When I do a square wave test it overdeviates by over 20% at 30 Hz and below. Using StereoTool's tilt and calibrate options didn't seem to help. (I use MPXTool and an RTL-SDR to measure the signal.)

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 Post subject: Re: Tilt Issue!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2023 9:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:52 pm
Posts: 4
@TheDaChicken- some lessons are unfortunately expensive. All together, its very unusual situation because the CEO of PCS claimed that with the line of 8000+ transmitters the problem was solved and the phase distortion in the LF region was solved. I didn't want to buy new boards to confirm this, instead I stayed with the 6000+ and 2015+ series which have a similar problem, with less pronounced symptoms that could be corrected by changing the elements in the VCO stage. This would reduce the overshoot to 5-10% depending on the frequency of the transmitter. The only series that worked without overshoots was the ancient 3000+ series (not the one advertised now under dds).
It is even more strange that the RDS board turns off the transmitter and that the owner does not want to accept the goods for service, even though the warranty period in case of defective material is indicated on the page. Certainly a big minus for business!

I don't want to be pessimistic, but you won't be very happy with Aareff Transmitters (ex Veronica) either. An ancient design made for pirates 30+ years ago before the arrival of modern processors based on a well-camouflaged square. There is a whole history related to the NRG-Veronica project, which you can find in detail on the Internet. In short, over the years the original designs were modified and this unfortunately brought the degradation of the transmitter's characteristics. Other products of this company are not good either (a stereo encoder that forgets what is left and what is right when it is turned on again, with completely wrong emphasis and lack of LPF, HPF, pilot phase adjustment, then terrible AGC processor with muffled sound). 20+ years ago I had this rig on test, intending to use it. But after the test, it ended up first in the warehouse and then in the garbage. As I said, some lessons are expensive.


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 Post subject: Re: Tilt Issue!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:05 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2022 3:41 am
Posts: 56
Quote:
@TheDaChicken- some lessons are unfortunately expensive. All together, its very unusual situation because the CEO of PCS claimed that with the line of 8000+ transmitters the problem was solved and the phase distortion in the LF region was solved. I didn't want to buy new boards to confirm this, instead I stayed with the 6000+ and 2015+ series which have a similar problem, with less pronounced symptoms that could be corrected by changing the elements in the VCO stage. This would reduce the overshoot to 5-10% depending on the frequency of the transmitter. The only series that worked without overshoots was the ancient 3000+ series (not the one advertised now under dds).
It is even more strange that the RDS board turns off the transmitter and that the owner does not want to accept the goods for service, even though the warranty period in case of defective material is indicated on the page. Certainly a big minus for business!

I don't want to be pessimistic, but you won't be very happy with Aareff Transmitters (ex Veronica) either. An ancient design made for pirates 30+ years ago before the arrival of modern processors based on a well-camouflaged square. There is a whole history related to the NRG-Veronica project, which you can find in detail on the Internet. In short, over the years the original designs were modified and this unfortunately brought the degradation of the transmitter's characteristics. Other products of this company are not good either (a stereo encoder that forgets what is left and what is right when it is turned on again, with completely wrong emphasis and lack of LPF, HPF, pilot phase adjustment, then terrible AGC processor with muffled sound). 20+ years ago I had this rig on test, intending to use it. But after the test, it ended up first in the warehouse and then in the garbage. As I said, some lessons are expensive.
Omg! Thanks so much for all this information!

I really wish information with "good fm transmitters" for this kind of thing was more easily accessible on the Internet. I went with PCS Electronics originally because it was recommended on this form...

I do understand not wanting to be pessimistic. Knowing this information is good!


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 Post subject: Re: Tilt Issue!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 8:45 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:20 pm
Posts: 24
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
I have 2 transmitters. I originally bought one but was sent another one for free in the hope the mods they did improved linearity. Turns out it didn't. Frequency response is all over the place too.

Great news! I managed to improve the modulation by using the FM calibration filter. Not perfect but overshoots happen far less often now. Give it a try becuase it might work on your transmitter too!

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We're the station for LA's cubers!


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