Stereo Tool

Now that 7.70 is out the door, who's ready to discuss AGC improvements?

For starters, I'd like to see the band linking section completely redone to model the new MB coupling styles added recently. Assuming a 3-band AGC, allow me to set the desired 2 > 1 coupling and 2 > 3 coupling.

Next, I'd like to be able to adjust the attack and release of all AGC bands, not just two of them.

Next, I'd like relative threshold controls for bands 1 and 3. 2 should continue to be the master band, but if I notice that practically every song I play is causing more GR in band 1 than band 2, I would like to raise band 1's threshold to make that happen a tad less often.

Finally, and I'm saving the best for last, allow me to choose the crossover settings when using multiple bands in the AGC. I feel like right now that the band 1 to band 2 split is a lot higher up than I wish it was. But rather than just fix that, why not make it completely adjustable as MB is already.

Thoughts?

I agree with you that the AGC, its coupling especially, needs some work. Even on its most extreme settings it still couples too much. it would be great to have the flexibility to completely uncouple its bands. Apart from your ideas a level setting (Mix) for each AGC band is very welcome as well.

Yes please!! New agc would be nice.

_________________
The Power of Sound

''Music is a moral law. It gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and to everything.'' - Plato

Ah, yes. The output mix level should be able to be specified in addition to the AGC threshold. Good catch.

In addition it would be good to have:
-Ratio control
-lower down-end of the post-AGC's threshold control
-(slowdown-)window Algorithm
-shape control for the attack and release Speeds
-an idle gain algorithm to set a GR value where it settles when gated

Regards,
Robert

mandatory improvements for agc:

- peak or rms type (selectable)
- "normal" attack and release times (in .x db/s steps, not .xxxxxxxxxx db/s style)
- real progressive release
- window algorithm
- "normal" sidechain parametric eq (typical 5 bands with freq/octaves/gain control)
- internal itu sidechain filters (selectable) (and light grey visible under main draw line in eq?)
- gate with slowdown and freeze tresholds
- selectable crossover in 2/3 band mode
- "simple" post agc compressor like a "main" agc (feedforward and feedback with paraeq sidechain)
- additional treshold level for bass band would be nice
- new mb coupling/link style (with turn off coupling/link option)

RATIO RATIO RATIO, why is there no ratio control!!!!
I otherwise agree with everything else being mentioned, AGC's should be transparent to the ear, and the one in stereo tool is not, it ruins an otherwise excellent processor!
I don't know what the built in ratio is but it is WAY to high.
The other big one is the windowing algorithm, the AGC should leave the level alone as long as it stays with in a certain window, once it steps out of that window it should correct it and then freeze again.

In the meantime, does anyone have a good setup for the AGC that makes it more transparent? I can't find a good mix that keeps levels consistent without quite passages being overly boosted, which then builds too much density in the multiband, and then loud songs get pulled down too much making them actually sound too quite compared with other normal material.
This is typically a symptom of the ratio being too high, but we have to deal with it for now, I opened up the STS file in notepad to see if it was a hidden parameter, but it's not.

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-Matt Levin

The current AGC ratio is locked at inf:1.

As for good settings, that all depends. I prefer to run in two-band mode with about 1 dB/sec release and 16 dB/sec attack. You'll need to play with band linking to get your preferred maximum band split.

Also, be advised that this configuration causes bass loss, so you'll need to lower your MB bass band(s) threshold(s) and raise their output levels to compensate.

Hopefully all of this can be fixed in the future if the suggestions on this thread are implemented.

Wes,
That explains a lot, I like a ton of bass, so I'm running it in single band mode with power bass and power highs enabled with the sideband setup where it's primarily looking at mids so it doesn't react to the lows and highs. I'm used to the sound of Omnia's, as I've worked with about every omnia there is, including the 11, and the 9 from Leif. The newer Omnia's do a really good job of making that Wideband AGC transparent, and of course the 11 and the 9 both of adjustable ratio controls. This software has some amazing potential, I just found it about a month ago and am very impressed, but in my opinion the AGC is the weakest link by far right now. When I slow down the release, it helps the short quite passages, but the longer ones you can here it start to really pull the gain up, and the density starts really building in the multiband, almost to the point of distortion. The gating controls needs some work as well, too basic right now, the multiband has far better gating controls.

_________________
-Matt Levin

Sandburner14 mentioned the reason why I would therefore (for now) prefer to let the post-AGC compressor (in analog mode) do the most of this work. Its behavior is way better than the AGC now.
@sandburner14: Try this:
-set the AGC attack and release times to VERY low values, betwen 0.1 and 0.3dB/s.
-Go to the ini- File and lower the threshold of the post-AGC compressor to about -12dB (cause unfortunately the range down end stops at -3, I don't know why)
-Now you have many of the Features to make a good AGC behavior like attack and release shape, Ratio, loudness, sidechain, gate etc...
-the only Thing you have to do is to look at the average gain reduction after the basically adjustments and to add this value to your actual Drive- control of the first Multiband

You have to Play a bit especially withe the Timing controls but if you did - you will be much more lucky.

Regards,
Robert