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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:01 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:55 am
Posts: 36
Quote:
To one of your questions: Foobar no longer needs a wrapper, it has native support, but is a little tricky: you have to load the vst through preferences - components - vst plugins, restart Foobar, and then look for it under Dsp. So no wrapper here
I'm pretty that is VST Adapter. Thanks though. Despite reinstalling the program messing up the components folder (got to stop manually installing those), I've found something useful

After screwing up my foobar2000 installation and not wanting to lose half my components, I realized my mass system backup (3 25GB blu-rays - 8/10/2015 before Windows 10 Pro got re-installed) had Stereo Tool VST 7.70 from components folder setting in there.
The click bug doesn't seem to exist here either and this one is more recent or maybe it does it just didn't break on my setup yet. Somebody else said 7.60 and that's what I thought.

Hope this narrows it down.

I save Winamp and foobar2000 plugins and configuration data during mass back ups but not during quick ones to speed up the recovery process. Another dumb stroke of luck. If I was in charge of a nuclear reactor... It be in total meltdown and doom the Earth by now.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:43 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:55 am
Posts: 36
30 second samples comparing 7.70 and 7.72

Yes, the music piece is where you think it's from. :D It's heard best on music with softer volume.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:44 pm
Posts: 1164
Location: Bulgaria
Second one is a vinyl record :)

Now seriously : It indeed looks like phase errors . But it may be a resampler error. I don`t know, inspector Hans will say what is it :)


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 11211
Quote:
30 second samples comparing 7.70 and 7.72

Yes, the music piece is where you think it's from. :D It's heard best on music with softer volume.
Ok this is helpful! And it looks very much like what I would expect if Stereo Tool causes it. The distance between the clicks is exactly 42.667 ms which is what I would expect with a ST problem, and they occur on both channels simultaneously.

Somehow the audio gets shifted by 2 or 4 samples (which gives a click, 2 or 4 zero samples are inserted), after which - in 42.667 ms - the shift disappears again.

Based on what I see it cannot be the resampler if it's before Stereo Tool, and it cannot be the processing inside Stereo Tool. Which leaves either the input stages or the final output stages of Stereo Tool. I'm guessing that it's an optimization problem... Will try to reproduce it here now.


Edit: Ok, got it to click here as well. Will investigate what's happening now.
Edit: Good, debug mode exits with an error (assert) so I know where to look...


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:19 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Milan, Italy
Quote:
@ClaveFremen: You're reporting completely distorted sound at latency 2048 in version 7.70. Version 7.70 has been available for months and you're the first to report this, so whatever you're seeing doesn't seem to happen to a lot of people. You are also saying that the problem disappears if you increase the buffer size in Foobar, which would seem to indicate that it's a buffering problem - but if the right channel is completely distorted it doesn't seem to match that (depending on what you mean by distorted - is it too loud, or a complete mess of different chunks of audio, or noise, or something else?). Can you try if that also disappears if you increase the buffer size? If not, can you make a recording of the distortion?
I suppose not much people using ST optimize Foobar settings or maybe doesn't notice them, I didn't too until I've started using headphones, with them they're much more noticeable.

Keeping ST GUI open or not makes no difference for both clicks/drops or the distortion at 2048 samples.

The distortion is also present at 120ms (or higher) buffer, I'll try to record it and post it.
Quote:
All of you: Are you both using Foobar with a VST wrapper? @ClaveFremen, Chibisteven only sees a problem with 192 kHz sample rate, what sample rate are you using?
Yes, I'm using a VST wrapper.

I'm not resampling, the tracks I'm using are plain 44100Hz ones.
Quote:
I've just installed Foobar + VST Adapter, and running the latest ST shows no problems, except indeed when I set the latency to 50 ms. Then anything I do on the system causes brief drops.
I confirm the problem is present only at 50ms buffer size (even doing nothing else on the PC), but version 7.60 works perfectly with that buffer size.
Quote:
Just to check: If you are talking about CPU load, are you checking the meter inside Stereo Tool or another tool? Only the value inside ST is useful to determine if there's a problem. It's under Configuration -> CPU & Latency.
CPU is under 30% while clicking.

Image
image share

When 2048 samples are selected the CPU seen by ST goes to 100% (it's the dark red area, right?) but Task Manager reports under 30% CPU utilization.

Image
url immagine
Quote:
Edit: I see that Foobar crashes when I open and close the VST GUI and then close Foobar. It appears to be an internal Foobar error though - it's definitely not something that's coming out of Stereo Tool... (It complains that some object already exists, a bug coming from ST would look very different, and when it happens ST has already been unloaded). Despite that, can you try if you also hear clicks if you never open the GUI?
The wrapper it's a bit buggy, sometimes it crash.

Opening the gui makes no clicks, sometimes when you close it.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:44 pm
Posts: 1164
Location: Bulgaria
ClaveFremen,
Use the other wrapper by George .... i don`t remember his second name. It`s indeed more stable.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:44 pm
Posts: 1164
Location: Bulgaria
Quote:
Quote:
30 second samples comparing 7.70 and 7.72

Yes, the music piece is where you think it's from. :D It's heard best on music with softer volume.
Ok this is helpful! And it looks very much like what I would expect if Stereo Tool causes it. The distance between the clicks is exactly 42.667 ms which is what I would expect with a ST problem, and they occur on both channels simultaneously.

Somehow the audio gets shifted by 2 or 4 samples (which gives a click, 2 or 4 zero samples are inserted), after which - in 42.667 ms - the shift disappears again.

Based on what I see it cannot be the resampler if it's before Stereo Tool, and it cannot be the processing inside Stereo Tool. Which leaves either the input stages or the final output stages of Stereo Tool. I'm guessing that it's an optimization problem... Will try to reproduce it here now.


Edit: Ok, got it to click here as well. Will investigate what's happening now.
Edit: Good, debug mode exits with an error (assert) so I know where to look...

Why this is presented only in VST ? I think Stand alone not doing like this (at least i don`t hear this effect).
VST takes the "sound" directly and don`t have it`s own input card selector. Is this the reason ?
In this case i suspect that someone who use the DSP will report something similar ? This is just a guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 11211
I found a bug, will post a beta asap. I don't know if it will fix everything but at least the clicks should be gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:19 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Milan, Italy
Quote:
Use the other wrapper by George .... i don`t remember his second name. It`s indeed more stable.
Just tried it... Maybe it's more stable but not as well integrated in Foobar as the other, even with Windows...the effect window can't be selected with alt-tab.

BTW the problem is present also using this wrapper

Using the plugin via Audacity in the realtime preview the clicks/drops problem is scarcely present while the 2048 samples one is still there, in the following image can be nothed in the meters the distorted output:

Image
host image
Quote:
I found a bug, will post a beta asap. I don't know if it will fix everything but at least the clicks should be gone.
Great! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 7.72
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 11211
Please let me know if this version is ok! 32 bit only - I suppose that's ok for Foobar?

http://www.stereotool.com/download/vst_ ... 73-001.dll

CHANGES:
- Bug fix: MAC GUI version can crash on startup
- Bug fix: VST window to small in some VST hosts
- Bug fix: Clicks in Foobar2000 with VST version with SOX resampler in front of it, depending on resampling settings

TODO:
- Bug fix: GUI: 50us/75us icons in GUI displayed disabled when on, not at all when off.
- Bug fix: 2048 latency Dequantizer distortion in multicore mode
- Bug fix: GUI: BS412 refresh bug
- Bug fix: Spike in signal with Ignore high frequencies - might just be too close - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6149&start=26 - Separate output can still have this spike, never mind for now...
- Re-check Stokkemask for non-composite output - made it available again in Expert mode.
- NAN when changing ND frequencies: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6149&start=18 -> Unable to reproduce...


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