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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.22
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:18 am
Posts: 45
Quote:
Quote:
Can someone update WatchCat? The current version 1.2.4 was built Jan 19 and ST 9.22 was released Jan 20.

I just tested with the Dutch Chocolate Moose Europe FM preset and the WatchCat processed file sounds different than in MediaMonkey running ST 9.22. The processed file has more sharp highs when in MediaMonkey the highs are more softer.
It's the same version (the build takes long). Maybe there's a difference in settings? Could it be that you're comparing FM processed (pre/de emphasized) audio with non-FM processed (streaming output for example)?
I loaded up Stereo Tool 9.22 with the Dutch Chocolate Moose FM preset found in the Europe FM menu. I then saved it to a preset file (Save -> All Settings (Export). Then I opened WatchCat and made both of the output profiles (Watchfolder and Drag&Drop) use this new .sts file. So it should be exactly the same settings.

But the output file sounds clearly different on the high end especially. Could it be a bug within WatchCat then?

EDIT: Tested with Winamp also to see if it sounds the same as in MediaMonkey and it does. So the problem is not with the music player using Stereo Tool DSP. It's probably a problem with WatchCat. Or then it doesn't save the settings properly when Exported from ST.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.22
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 9893
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Can someone update WatchCat? The current version 1.2.4 was built Jan 19 and ST 9.22 was released Jan 20.

I just tested with the Dutch Chocolate Moose Europe FM preset and the WatchCat processed file sounds different than in MediaMonkey running ST 9.22. The processed file has more sharp highs when in MediaMonkey the highs are more softer.
It's the same version (the build takes long). Maybe there's a difference in settings? Could it be that you're comparing FM processed (pre/de emphasized) audio with non-FM processed (streaming output for example)?
I loaded up Stereo Tool 9.22 with the Dutch Chocolate Moose FM preset found in the Europe FM menu. I then saved it to a preset file (Save -> All Settings (Export). Then I opened WatchCat and made both of the output profiles (Watchfolder and Drag&Drop) use this new .sts file. So it should be exactly the same settings.

But the output file sounds clearly different on the high end especially. Could it be a bug within WatchCat then?

EDIT: Tested with Winamp also to see if it sounds the same as in MediaMonkey and it does. So the problem is not with the music player using Stereo Tool DSP.
If it's just on the highs, then I really suspect FM pre-emphasis to be doing something here. Just to make sure: You're not normalizing anything? Sharp highs will get reduced greatly when pre-emphasized clipping is used. (By the way, in general it's probably not a good idea to run files through an FM preset, unless you specifically want to replicate FM sound. I'm pretty sure that we've never tested this with WatchCat).

Edit: I'm also not sure if WatchCat loads the settings with or without FM settings. If without, you would indeed get much brighter highs.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.22
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:18 am
Posts: 45
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:


It's the same version (the build takes long). Maybe there's a difference in settings? Could it be that you're comparing FM processed (pre/de emphasized) audio with non-FM processed (streaming output for example)?
I loaded up Stereo Tool 9.22 with the Dutch Chocolate Moose FM preset found in the Europe FM menu. I then saved it to a preset file (Save -> All Settings (Export). Then I opened WatchCat and made both of the output profiles (Watchfolder and Drag&Drop) use this new .sts file. So it should be exactly the same settings.

But the output file sounds clearly different on the high end especially. Could it be a bug within WatchCat then?

EDIT: Tested with Winamp also to see if it sounds the same as in MediaMonkey and it does. So the problem is not with the music player using Stereo Tool DSP.
If it's just on the highs, then I really suspect FM pre-emphasis to be doing something here. Just to make sure: You're not normalizing anything? Sharp highs will get reduced greatly when pre-emphasized clipping is used. (By the way, in general it's probably not a good idea to run files through an FM preset, unless you specifically want to replicate FM sound. I'm pretty sure that we've never tested this with WatchCat).

Edit: I'm also not sure if WatchCat loads the settings with or without FM settings. If without, you would indeed get much brighter highs.
No, not using normalization.

I've only done quick tests but yes it really sounds like it's affecting the highs. I intentionally have used the FM preset to replicate FM sound. It seems WatchCat is leaving out at least the FM settings from the processed file. I would love to see WatchCat create the processed file EXACTLY as it is in the preset file.

EDIT: Just compared the processed file to the Web Radio version of the preset in question and it now sounds identical. So you can't use the FM presets with WatchCat... didn't know this before now.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.22
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:01 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:31 am
Posts: 26
Quote:
In Both multibands under Behavior, next to Ratio (it's called max ratio or m. ratio there).
This is just a suggestion, but I wouldn't hide features that needed to be turned off unless I wanted to lose some of your free users. I understand about the need to make money though.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.22
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:24 pm
Posts: 101
Quote:
Quote:
In Both multibands under Behavior, next to Ratio (it's called max ratio or m. ratio there).
This is just a suggestion, but I wouldn't hide features that needed to be turned off unless I wanted to lose some of your free users. I understand about the need to make money though.

Do you really think the free users are getting Hans his dinner on his plate??


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.22
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:22 pm
Posts: 257
Max Ratio is only hidden in basic mode, just like hundreds of other sliders and buttons that are hidden in basic mode. Basic mode is intended for people who only want to make very basic adjustments and don't want to go in-depth in the processor's settings. Therefore it wouldn't make much sense to add max ratio to basic mode. It's an advanced setting.
We care about building a great product. We don't trick people for money.

_________________
Software Engineer @ Thimeo Audio Technology B.V.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.22
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:31 am
Posts: 26
Quote:
Do you really think the free users are getting Hans his dinner on his plate??
Excellent point, and that's why, even though I'm a free user, I plan to donate a generous amount to the developer of this software. It's great.

Mathijsco thanks for info. You're good didn't mean to accuse you.


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