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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:22 pm
Posts: 282
Quote:
Hi all!
After a while, i'm back to ST (kinda) :)

First thing i tested new AGC, and i must say that it fixes 1 problem from old (legacy) AGC but presents about 3 nre problems.
New agc should be RMS based, wich is at first great idea, however after just few test tracks, i found that it's not so good.
Firstly i was tuning attack and relese speeds to some normal leveling behaviour, when i first thing i realised that idea of RMS leveling is actually gone! But, on top of that it presents me new problem then, it still on some soft-part-of-track ends up massively amplyfied! The effect is so huge that cant be avoided even with even more perfectly tuned speeds or Sidechain(s).
That one thing that is better in new AGC then in old AGC is more accurate attack, old one was just too slow near-target and too fast on big changes. New one do that much better.
Perfect tracks to test AGC are those that have both Dynamic and compressed parts. Or Dynamic tracks it much singing and/or loud voices.
Yes, and the broken max release time is certainly creating many of these problems (or at least making them worse). I am reserving final judgement until that works, and I can set a limit to avoid "runaway release" as currently observed.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 4163
Quote:
Quote:
Hi all!
After a while, i'm back to ST (kinda) :)

First thing i tested new AGC, and i must say that it fixes 1 problem from old (legacy) AGC but presents about 3 nre problems.
New agc should be RMS based, wich is at first great idea, however after just few test tracks, i found that it's not so good.
Firstly i was tuning attack and relese speeds to some normal leveling behaviour, when i first thing i realised that idea of RMS leveling is actually gone! But, on top of that it presents me new problem then, it still on some soft-part-of-track ends up massively amplyfied! The effect is so huge that cant be avoided even with even more perfectly tuned speeds or Sidechain(s).
That one thing that is better in new AGC then in old AGC is more accurate attack, old one was just too slow near-target and too fast on big changes. New one do that much better.
Perfect tracks to test AGC are those that have both Dynamic and compressed parts. Or Dynamic tracks it much singing and/or loud voices.
Yes, and the broken max release time is certainly creating many of these problems (or at least making them worse). I am reserving final judgement until that works, and I can set a limit to avoid "runaway release" as currently observed.
Yes, i know for broken max-release, also i'll test when it fixes it. Things migt be better with much less max-release.
Thing is that i tested with legacy thing ON (checkbox) wich does not include max-release problem.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:45 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:22 pm
Posts: 282
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hi all!
After a while, i'm back to ST (kinda) :)

First thing i tested new AGC, and i must say that it fixes 1 problem from old (legacy) AGC but presents about 3 nre problems.
New agc should be RMS based, wich is at first great idea, however after just few test tracks, i found that it's not so good.
Firstly i was tuning attack and relese speeds to some normal leveling behaviour, when i first thing i realised that idea of RMS leveling is actually gone! But, on top of that it presents me new problem then, it still on some soft-part-of-track ends up massively amplyfied! The effect is so huge that cant be avoided even with even more perfectly tuned speeds or Sidechain(s).
That one thing that is better in new AGC then in old AGC is more accurate attack, old one was just too slow near-target and too fast on big changes. New one do that much better.
Perfect tracks to test AGC are those that have both Dynamic and compressed parts. Or Dynamic tracks it much singing and/or loud voices.
Yes, and the broken max release time is certainly creating many of these problems (or at least making them worse). I am reserving final judgement until that works, and I can set a limit to avoid "runaway release" as currently observed.
Yes, i know for broken max-release, also i'll test when it fixes it. Things migt be better with much less max-release.
Thing is that i tested with legacy thing ON (checkbox) wich does not include max-release problem.
Shape is also broken, at least as far as I can tell. There is also a weird dip when attacking that I can't begin to explain. There are definitely problems that keep me from fully testing the new functionality and developing finished presets with it.

Having said that, I really like the direction this is going. This is the first time I've been able to use super high ratios and have it sound good. I've also taken the training wheels off by getting rid of things like max attack speed and max release speed, as well as spectral balance correction.

I now have full confidence that once a fixed version comes out, I will be able to fully realize my vision. Hans knows there are some major outstanding issues. I can't wait until he can dive back in.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:56 pm
Posts: 326
I am Glad for Bojcha's return!!! :P
New ears on the forum ;) Wb bro


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:46 pm
Posts: 281
Quote:
Hi all!
After a while, i'm back to ST (kinda) :)

First thing i tested new AGC, and i must say that it fixes 1 problem from old (legacy) AGC but presents about 3 nre problems.
New agc should be RMS based, wich is at first great idea, however after just few test tracks, i found that it's not so good.
Firstly i was tuning attack and relese speeds to some normal leveling behaviour, when i first thing i realised that idea of RMS leveling is actually gone! But, on top of that it presents me new problem then, it still on some soft-part-of-track ends up massively amplyfied! The effect is so huge that cant be avoided even with even more perfectly tuned speeds or Sidechain(s).
That one thing that is better in new AGC then in old AGC is more accurate attack, old one was just too slow near-target and too fast on big changes. New one do that much better.
Perfect tracks to test AGC are those that have both Dynamic and compressed parts. Or Dynamic tracks it much singing and/or loud voices.
I had already noticed similar problems with the AGC when this mode was not called Legacy. Unfortunately, I had also tried out with various songs and had real problems. As you already write, either the amplification is too massive or the release is much too fast, although the time is set relatively slow. Do you have some good ideas for settings to get the whole thing into a good balance? You had built many of the great presets, which were really always excellent. For example, I didn't manage to recreate the behavior of the AGC settings you had in a Unveil preset with the new AGC, because the times had varied enormously and were not as reliable as in the old one.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:22 pm
Posts: 282
Quote:
I had already noticed similar problems with the AGC when this mode was not called Legacy. Unfortunately, I had also tried out with various songs and had real problems. As you already write, either the amplification is too massive or the release is much too fast, although the time is set relatively slow. Do you have some good ideas for settings to get the whole thing into a good balance? You had built many of the great presets, which were really always excellent. For example, I didn't manage to recreate the behavior of the AGC settings you had in a Unveil preset with the new AGC, because the times had varied enormously and were not as reliable as in the old one.
I wouldn't attempt to nail down any release times right now. It's an exercise in futility in the current beta. It would be better to wait, in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:39 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:24 pm
Posts: 77
Hello,
What's the latest version before big changes? 8.40?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:22 pm
Posts: 282
So false alarm. Shape isn't broken at all. I'm a real big idiot. That's all. I guess the only thing that really is broken so far is max release speed not working. That's a biggie to get right, given the release characteristics of this new mode.

Sorry for the bad report.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 4163
Shape is ok. But watch Progressive Release! It has big impact on SymRMS mode.

Oops i mean "Exponentional Release" ^^

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control point2


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:56 pm
Posts: 4163
Quote:
Do you have some good ideas for settings to get the whole thing into a good balance? You had built many of the great presets, which were really always excellent.
"Some" settigns to start with. Drive and Thresh should be tuned according to Pre-Amp.
Image

Alsto there is sidechain a bit :) But will work ok without it too.

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