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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Location: Antwerp
Hi Hans,

sorry for the delay, output scopes are ok now, thank you very much.

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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:15 pm
Posts: 84
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JdR2, I played the first file (no Auto EQ's) through Stereo Tool and turned both AutoEQ's on.

There is definitely noise in the top end that's in the file that the EQ is bringing out. (It's there with any EQ if top end is boosted.) But, it's NO WHERE near as bad as your second file.

You should probably post your Stereo Tool settings (Save -> All Settings (Export)) and post the .sts file here, as well as the original unprocessed .wav file.
That might indeed help. Based on the sound I have no idea what's going on. But it should not sound like this.

By the way, at the start of a file, Auto EQ does nothing at all. See my reply below about opening a separate instance for a new track - if Wavosaur does not do that I would say it's not suitable to process multiple files....... (Still it doesn't explain what I'm hearing in those 2 files).
Tnxs "All Night" for your test. Indeed this is happening on all settings of the auto eq, and indeed there is noise / hiss / static in the original wav. As it no longer exists when auto eq is off, it shouldn't be back in in my logic.

Perhaps I do not quite understand the concept of the Auto Eq. What we are doing is tuning the auto EQ its settings to the color of a song we like and we assume the software will attempt to breng every song to the color of this sound. So far we also have a strong feeling this is what we hear and happens.

Indeed Hans this song is a bit thin in color. But that's exactly the reason we used it to test the Auto Eq in 9.01. I will sent my settings to your DM Hans together with the original song.

Also I will try to find out what Wavosaur is doing. What we do is add 1 second silence to the end of the wav in batch and then we once again batch process over the VST rack with ST in it. We have experienced ST / Wavosaur sometimes added a piece of the just processed wav in the beginning of a new when the 1 second of silence wasn't there. That's what we do for over 3 years now and work(ed)s perfect.

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Currently live processing ST 9.02 , testing upgrade to auto equalizer offline using slightly modified 3 FM settings Bojcha


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 9568
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
JdR2, I played the first file (no Auto EQ's) through Stereo Tool and turned both AutoEQ's on.

There is definitely noise in the top end that's in the file that the EQ is bringing out. (It's there with any EQ if top end is boosted.) But, it's NO WHERE near as bad as your second file.

You should probably post your Stereo Tool settings (Save -> All Settings (Export)) and post the .sts file here, as well as the original unprocessed .wav file.
That might indeed help. Based on the sound I have no idea what's going on. But it should not sound like this.

By the way, at the start of a file, Auto EQ does nothing at all. See my reply below about opening a separate instance for a new track - if Wavosaur does not do that I would say it's not suitable to process multiple files....... (Still it doesn't explain what I'm hearing in those 2 files).
Tnxs "All Night" for your test. Indeed this is happening on all settings of the auto eq, and indeed there is noise / hiss / static in the original wav. As it no longer exists when auto eq is off, it shouldn't be back in in my logic.

Perhaps I do not quite understand the concept of the Auto Eq. What we are doing is tuning the auto EQ its settings to the color of a song we like and we assume the software will attempt to breng every song to the color of this sound. So far we also have a strong feeling this is what we hear and happens.

Indeed Hans this song is a bit thin in color. But that's exactly the reason we used it to test the Auto Eq in 9.01. I will sent my settings to your DM Hans together with the original song.

Also I will try to find out what Wavosaur is doing. What we do is add 1 second silence to the end of the wav in batch and then we once again batch process over the VST rack with ST in it. We have experienced ST / Wavosaur sometimes added a piece of the just processed wav in the beginning of a new when the 1 second of silence wasn't there. That's what we do for over 3 years now and work(ed)s perfect.
Aha.

1. I listened to the original file and the noise is clearly audible, I don't hear any difference between Auto EQ on or off in your preset.

2. This means that Wavosaur doesn't behave as it should!!!!!! You should not need to add a bit of silence at the end, because the VST standard supports a "delay" feature, where the VST plugin tells the host how much delay there is. Beside that, it should start a new instance for each track, which it also obviously doesn't do. I'm not sure what happened with the noise on your end (in part it could be that a previous song was very bright and caused the highest multiband bands to be far down and gated - that's another reason why it's so important to create a new instance!), but after a fresh start, with or without Auto EQ and Bass EQ makes no difference at all. In both cases the noise is pulled up, not by Auto EQ but by the multiband.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:15 pm
Posts: 84
Quote:
Aha.

1. I listened to the original file and the noise is clearly audible, I don't hear any difference between Auto EQ on or off in your preset.

2. This means that Wavosaur doesn't behave as it should!!!!!! You should not need to add a bit of silence at the end, because the VST standard supports a "delay" feature, where the VST plugin tells the host how much delay there is. Beside that, it should start a new instance for each track, which it also obviously doesn't do. I'm not sure what happened with the noise on your end (in part it could be that a previous song was very bright and caused the highest multiband bands to be far down and gated - that's another reason why it's so important to create a new instance!), but after a fresh start, with or without Auto EQ and Bass EQ makes no difference at all. In both cases the noise is pulled up, not by Auto EQ but by the multiband.
Tnxs Hans, really appreciate all your work and support although I in some cases don't understand exactly what some items are about because - obviously - of lack of knowledge on my side on very specific audio handling.

I will do a new batch process now on these 7500 wav's by your watchcat system. Curious if that improves this and changes the output.

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https://dreamstream.mobi

Currently live processing ST 9.02 , testing upgrade to auto equalizer offline using slightly modified 3 FM settings Bojcha


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:44 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:04 pm
Posts: 102
Wavosaur doesn't host latency. So all WAV files processed through it with Stereo Tool will be shifted forwards 4096 samples, or 6976 samples if Delossifier is enabled. If there isn't at least that many samples of silence at the end of the WAVs, they will get cut off. (6976 samples is about .158 seconds @ 44,100 hz).

I have seen it, where part of a previous WAV file will appear in the blank 4096/6976 samples at the beginning of a processed wav. This actually also happens in older versions of Audacity back when it didn't host the latency.

You can use Sox to "pad" your files with 4096 or 6976 samples at the end of your files, then when done processing, to "trim" the 4096 or 6976 samples off from the beginning.

To pad files, put this to "pad.bat" batch file, then run it in the directory with your wavs (with sox.exe, or put sox.exe into a PATH environment variable on your system):
Code:
md pad
for %%i in (*.wav) do sox.exe "%%i" "pad\%%~ni.wav" pad 0 4096s
And here's the batch file for trimming:
Code:
md trim
for %%i in (*.wav) do sox.exe "%%i" "trim\%%~ni.wav" trim 4096s
Keep in mind that while Sox supports 32 bit float wavs, its internal code only supports 32 bit pcm. So, if you process any 32 bit float wavs through it that have clipping (audio levels above 1.000), Sox will permanently clip the files at 1.000. You can batch check the levels of your files using Foobar. (Add files, right click all selected files, "Replay gain" -> "Scan per-file track gain".)


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 9568
Quote:
Possible to fix overall attack and relase speed to follow max attack and max release in main mb window?
You mean add an overall max attack/release speed?


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:15 pm
Posts: 84
Quote:
Wavosaur doesn't host latency. So all WAV files processed through it with Stereo Tool will be shifted forwards 4096 samples, or 6976 samples if Delossifier is enabled. If there isn't at least that many samples of silence at the end of the WAVs, they will get cut off. (6976 samples is about .158 seconds @ 44,100 hz).

I have seen it, where part of a previous WAV file will appear in the blank 4096/6976 samples at the beginning of a processed wav. This actually also happens in older versions of Audacity back when it didn't host the latency.

You can use Sox to "pad" your files with 4096 or 6976 samples at the end of your files, then when done processing, to "trim" the 4096 or 6976 samples off from the beginning.

To pad files, put this to "pad.bat" batch file, then run it in the directory with your wavs (with sox.exe, or put sox.exe into a PATH environment variable on your system):
Code:
md pad
for %%i in (*.wav) do sox.exe "%%i" "pad\%%~ni.wav" pad 0 4096s
And here's the batch file for trimming:
Code:
md trim
for %%i in (*.wav) do sox.exe "%%i" "trim\%%~ni.wav" trim 4096s
Keep in mind that while Sox supports 32 bit float wavs, its internal code only supports 32 bit pcm. So, if you process any 32 bit float wavs through it that have clipping (audio levels above 1.000), Sox will permanently clip the files at 1.000. You can batch check the levels of your files using Foobar. (Add files, right click all selected files, "Replay gain" -> "Scan per-file track gain".)
So we do need to add 1 second off silence in the end I understand. Because this latency isn't a fixed value and will probably increase more (as with delossifier) in the future. Tnxs for this info.

_________________
https://dreamstream.mobi

Currently live processing ST 9.02 , testing upgrade to auto equalizer offline using slightly modified 3 FM settings Bojcha


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:40 am
Posts: 9568
Quote:
So we do need to add 1 second off silence in the end I understand. Because this latency isn't a fixed value and will probably increase more (as with delossifier) in the future. Tnxs for this info.
Only with Wavosaur though!! This should not be needed. And it won't fix the whole problem, since the compressors, Auto EQ etc. will all be wherever they ended up being after the previous track.


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:19 am
Posts: 48
Another issue with Linux-Jack 32 bit build: One of the threads (in htop) constantly uses more than 100% CPU on a Core i3, even with processing set to bypass. GUI setting unter CPU make no difference. Kernel is 3.16 (Ubuntu Studio 14.04)


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 Post subject: Re: Stereo Tool 9.00
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:15 pm
Posts: 84
Quote:
In both cases the noise is pulled up, not by Auto EQ but by the multiband.
Hans we checked this by loading 8.23 and it's settings (currently used) in Wavosaur Batch versus 9.01 with the same settings processed by Watchcat.

There is NO noise in Wavosaur results, but there IS bigly noise in the Watchcat results. It might very well be the compressor but it is only audible in 9.01 and was not in 8.23 using the same compressor settings (symmetrical setup in both cases), nor has this noise been audible in 7.84 's settings we used before 8.23 on live. This recording is one of our fixed tests.

Also I reported the latency issue at wavosaur's forum linking to this thread. I had some real problems understanding the issue here, but I now understand this is about every new record starting with the settings of the last processed vs default. But isn't this corrected in the blink of an eye by the ST software?

_________________
https://dreamstream.mobi

Currently live processing ST 9.02 , testing upgrade to auto equalizer offline using slightly modified 3 FM settings Bojcha


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